Manual tranny, EVO ECU setup w/boomslang harness

[WhiteGalant]

no im 5spd swapped and trying to run a single ecu. im 03 so I am throwing the solenoid codes.

[Johnathansgalant]

my message was for run who has the evo ecu setup... Also you cannot tune for boost with the stock ecu so please dont try... that guy is running 4psi which means the ecu is basically guessing and dumping fuel.. also he has not changed his timing if u look and also he has a fmu and walbro fuel pump so its probably spitting fuel... they have not figured a way to transfer the maps sorry... You may be able to almost get away with that but who wants too...

just so u know the car will try to run even tho the load is over 100% but it will just est a value that in all cases is not correct.. you will knock and not have any control or knowledge of the knock because ur stock ecu does not have a knock sensor which is also another feature you wont have.. Your main problem is you will run too much timing and you can never adjust that over 100%.. fuel you can use afpr and fmu to adjust for boost but there will be no control for timing therefore you will eventually hit a ceiling in tuning and probably right away... I have tried to tune with the stock ecu and you will always always knock at 8psi and above...

[SPD_FRK]

my message was for run who has the evo ecu setup... Also you cannot tune for boost with the stock ecu so please dont try... that guy is running 4psi which means the ecu is basically guessing and dumping fuel.. also he has not changed his timing if u look and also he has a fmu and walbro fuel pump so its probably spitting fuel... they have not figured a way to transfer the maps sorry... You may be able to almost get away with that but who wants too...

just so u know the car will try to run even tho the load is over 100% but it will just est a value that in all cases is not correct.. you will knock and not have any control or knowledge of the knock because ur stock ecu does not have a knock sensor which is also another feature you wont have.. Your main problem is you will run too much timing and you can never adjust that over 100%.. fuel you can use afpr and fmu to adjust for boost but there will be no control for timing therefore you will eventually hit a ceiling in tuning and probably right away... I have tried to tune with the stock ecu and you will always always knock at 8psi and above...

He is sucessfully running EcuFlash and tuning with 4psi of boost, only seeing about 12 counts of knock (which btw is able to be read and monitored from his EvoScan use). The 4cyl G doesnt have a knock sensor you are right ( I know for a fact the V6 has one). I understand you would wire in a knock sensor for the Evo ECU though. How would you not have any control of timing also?? All of that is in the EcuFlash stuff, and hello...Adjustable cam gears as well (which BTW a lot of people have used to set timing on N/a and boosted).


As far as his ECU "guessing and dumping fuel...hasn't changed his timing"

First, interestingly aside from running on just 4psi, ignition timing hasn't really changed much. By that i mean that around 6k to 7k rpms im still running approx. 28 deg of advance timing without knock... I was expecting to be able to run no more than 20 deg, turns out my guess was way off? As for fuel ratios, i'm still working on it... Currently im running at around 11.5:1 in the 6k to 7k rpm range. I'm willing to bet that I can possibly run 13.0:1 without knocking

If they haven't figured out a way to transfer the Maps, then why is there a thread for the Evo ROMs for people to flash onto ther ECU? I know of one Eclipse right now here in Colorado that is actually running a turbo (untuned) from an Evo ROM flash onto his ECU. Still can't to log knock, but he is running on the maps from the Evo's ROM that were flashed onto his ECU, not the EVO's
http://www.club3g.com/forum/3g-eclip...load-here.html

With a tune, and running the Evo ROM on the stock ECU I would imagine knock would not be much of an issue, definitely another downside for the 4cyl ECU swap though unfrotunately. If some of the other folks on C3g are sucessfully running boost with a tune on the Evo ROM then the 4cyl Galant would be the same.

[Johnathansgalant]

you can only flash the evo rom to a manual ecu not AT ecu... there is currently absolutely no way to run your STOCK AT ECU with a load map over 100%... The roms are for manual tranny ecus only and if you flash them to your car you wont run.. The ecu pattern is explained somewhere but the pin arrangements are way different and the address are different so flashing an evo ecu into your car will put it in limp mode.. I have physically done all these things and i have seen what happens.. I have flashed the 3g manual rom and the car limps and will never run correctly. I flashed the AT evo rom from japan and the airtrek to test.. The airtrek was the closest that worked.. Still will not work right and no one will fix it..

He is running 4psi which is not much and theoretically 3psi was the limit for stock ecu... Its not impossible but for the money your going to waste on adjusting and tinkering with cams and such you could have easily swapped to an evo ecu.. That guy probably would have but hes running a v6 so hes going that route...

and as far as the knock sensor i dont believe our ecu has an input for one although not sure but i am fairly certain you cannot connect a knock sensor to the i4 and have it work so a good failsafe is out the window...

you can tune with cam gears but why would should you need to? I dont think you will need to tinker with cams until a good hp number. Even if you have cams at some point you will need to adjust ignition timing to get max performance. You wont be able to adjust your stock ecu or should i say you can not adjust it precisely.. I understand what your saying it is absolutely not necessary to change ecus but im saying that you will probably have a lot of issues.. If he was running 4psi with out a fmu i would be impressed... 12 counts of knock is good amount.. I try not to ever allow 3 or more but that is not always the case..

I will not tell you what is the best method... I dont know.. But I have gone the stock ecu route and im trying to save you the hassle..

I will attach a pic to show you a sample ish curve you can see..


on the curve on the very top end you have a lower load so it runs back into 15s and 18s and 20s... this is not exact but its an idea of what a log shows when you do wot..

[WhiteGalant]

So since Im 5sod swapped would you say the best rout would be to go with a m/t eclipse ecu and a harness?

[Johnathansgalant]

if it were up to me i would disconnect the SES light and be done --- but if your willing to do the wiring and such then yea get a mt ecu or an evo ecu.. Most times both ecus are the same price.. but yea mt ecu will work fine with a harness.. The most expensive piece is the harness...

[run1206]

run why are you worrying about shift solenoids?? From what i read you are running dual ecus?? worry about the evo ecu codes and remove the check engine line from the auto ecu.. If your going 5 speed.. ask boomslang to send you more pins and add the additional pins to the harness.. no need to buy a new harness.. you will just not use the stock side...

i've been 5 speed for over two months. i also have the shift solenoid codes cuz i'm an 02.

you will just now use the stock side

that's what i figured!! i wanna find out if i can "re-create" the conversion harness on the current boomslang harness i have now. Thanks!

the only dilemma is to figure out what extra pins i need and where. shouldn't be too hard to find out :)

[SPD_FRK]

you can only flash the evo rom to a manual ecu not AT ecu... there is currently absolutely no way to run your STOCK AT ECU with a load map over 100%... The roms are for manual tranny ecus only and if you flash them to your car you wont run.. The ecu pattern is explained somewhere but the pin arrangements are way different and the address are different so flashing an evo ecu into your car will put it in limp mode.. I have physically done all these things and i have seen what happens.. I have flashed the 3g manual rom and the car limps and will never run correctly. I flashed the AT evo rom from japan and the airtrek to test.. The airtrek was the closest that worked.. Still will not work right and no one will fix it..

I am curious why the A/t Ecu wouldn't be able to flash over with the Evo ROM and read the load above 100%...possibly settings in the ROM that would need to be altered maybe?

How are the Eclipse guys are running the Evo ROM on their ECU though? If they did an ECU swap on the 4cyl Galant, you can do the Evo and monitor Knock, or run the M/T Eclipse Ecu (won't monitor Knock though). They are running the Eclipse M/T Ecu though with the Evo ROM...its been proven to work for many of them currently even.

He is running 4psi which is not much and theoretically 3psi was the limit for stock ecu... Its not impossible but for the money your going to waste on adjusting and tinkering with cams and such you could have easily swapped to an evo ecu.. That guy probably would have but hes running a v6 so hes going that route...

Correct, the current boost levels he is running there isn't much change and his ECU is still reading up to 100% load, but then again the V6 like he is running is able to monitor the Knock count. Anything above 30 counts of Knock and 6psi of boost it will take something out. The thing is, if the 4 cyl Eclipse ECU can run with the Evo's ROM (which reads above 100% load), then there has to be a way to adjust the parameters in that ROM to fit and read for the V6 above 100% as well, while still retaining the ability to read and log Knock.

and as far as the knock sensor i dont believe our ecu has an input for one although not sure but i am fairly certain you cannot connect a knock sensor to the i4 and have it work so a good failsafe is out the window...

I don't know on the 4cyl Galant or Eclipse ECUs if there is a input for knock, I would assume probably not, so for the 4cyl the complete Evo ECU swap is the best route for this specific application.

you can tune with cam gears but why would should you need to? I dont think you will need to tinker with cams until a good hp number. Even if you have cams at some point you will need to adjust ignition timing to get max performance. You wont be able to adjust your stock ecu or should i say you can not adjust it precisely.. I understand what your saying it is absolutely not necessary to change ecus but im saying that you will probably have a lot of issues.. If he was running 4psi with out a fmu i would be impressed... 12 counts of knock is good amount.. I try not to ever allow 3 or more but that is not always the case..

If the Evo Rom is loaded onto the Eclipse Ecu sucessfully, those maps with the timing and fuel are basically set to the stock boost levels of the Evo (which isn't really high or low). For most people who are boosting the Galant, very few are pushing much boost past 20psi, and in these ranges plenty of information on the EcuFlash could be found on the Evo forums I'm sure. The 12 counts of knock is still pretty low considering the Ecu isn't reading past 100% load and he is pushing 4psi (still a low boost level). I was expecting to see some much high counts of knock than what he has seen so far. The "ideal" range of knock count is low like you are shooting for, but it's never perfect either lol.

I will not tell you what is the best method... I dont know.. But I have gone the stock ecu route and im trying to save you the hassle..

That's part of the learning process for everybody here man. We are all just trying to get a good grasp on this stuff since it has hardly been discussed much on here. The summuary really like I said above for the 4cyl Galant is either running the full Evo ECU, or swapping in the Eclipse M/T Ecu and flashing the Evo ROM. Either way the Galant folks are looking at roughly $100-$200 for either ECU depending where they can buy one from, unless there is a way to figure out the specific on the A/T Ecu in order to read the load above 100%


Definitely good discussion on this man +rep for you!

[Johnathansgalant]

just transfer every pin other than transmission pins over... so all sensors and solenoids like egr and whatever -- exclude the tranny solenoid pins and shifter crap.. Your evo ecu will control it fine. Just unplug the stock harness and u have a conversion pretty much ... Now boomslang is a valuable company but I have had to fix a few harnesses and I assume you will have some issues with important pins missing.. Ive had a few where the airflow sensor is not on the evo ecu so run evo scan and check all ur functions.. The datalink connectors may not even be connected right so be careful..

[qnz]

Dragon34x is also a v6. Thats also why he cant swap the evo Ecu into his car.

Theres more to the Evo Ecu now than just controling timing and fuel. People have figured out how to "mod" the Evo ecu to flash a light when youre knocking, and speed density, and no lift to shift, and ecu based boost control, and lots of other useful mods.

Can it be done on the stock Galant Ecu? I guess it can, but it would take atleast 6 programmers about 4 years to develop those code/mods for our ECU. Or you can put in the Evo ecu and use their work.

[Johnathansgalant]

think of the AT transmission ecu as PC with supporting hardware and the MT ecu as MAC with supporting hw.. The evo rom is the mac operating system for example.. You cant just install the Mac os on a pc and it will work just like that.. You have to have supporting hardware or you have to modify the operating system (evo rom). The hardware is physically different so the memory addresses and registers point to different places. When you copy the evo rom over for example - it looks for the injectors on a different pin than your stock ecu and will send a signal to the incorrect wire causing your car to be unpredictable.. Now the evo ecu and the Manual eclipse ecu are very close so its comparing an AMD pc to an INTEL pc.. You can get the software to work with a few mods here and there. The pins are identical on the evo and eclipse manual so the address are the same and the software will work properly with both.. Someone has to implant the fuel and igntion tables into the stock ecu and rearrange the addressing to correspond to the right pins on the plug..

The 4cyl manual ecu for the most part from what i know have the knock sensor input so if you choose to you can use the 3g mt or the evo 8 ecu. From what ive seen there the same in cost tho.. 150 for either so i would go with the evo 8 because it has more features and more pin usage like wastegate solenoid and clutch pins..

As far as using your stock ecu -- no one is trying to expand our software and i dont think anyone will ever. For the v6 or I4- i dont see anyone developing anything so i dont foresee any new developments allowing you to see over 100% load any time soon. If you recall around 10 to 12 psi is where you need to start adjusting timing but you always need to adjust fuel.. an fmu can take care of the fuel eventually youll have to answer to knock..

you are right about the end results its gonna run you a few hundred.. This is why im responding to the posts because I think i have gained a lot of valuable info regarding the ecu so im sharing as much as i can to you guys before you get into deal.. When i started mine nobody knew anything so i played with all this garbage.. I had a lot of tuning and soldering to get where i am now so i know what it takes to go the hard route..

I would love to have someone figure out how to transfer the maps but no one is focussing on our gs and we are used to it so we adapt.. I will tell you that my car drives the well in all weathers -- cold warm and so one.. once you get the tune right the ecu adjusts for everything..


some benefits you get off of changing ecu -- u get knock control and very detailed settings for controlling knock such as load and knock count activations, you get boost/fuel cut on a boost limit so if u spike the ecu stops you from killing ur motor based on load, the obvious >100 load and now even more load with tephra mods 7, 2 step and launch control with tephra 7, as qnz said nlts, speed density patches, knock light from ses light, and load based boost control... The boost limit / knock feature have helped me before..

[run1206]

just transfer every pin other than transmission pins over... so all sensors and solenoids like egr and whatever -- exclude the tranny solenoid pins and shifter crap.. Your evo ecu will control it fine. Just unplug the stock harness and u have a conversion pretty much ... Now boomslang is a valuable company but I have had to fix a few harnesses and I assume you will have some issues with important pins missing.. Ive had a few where the airflow sensor is not on the evo ecu so run evo scan and check all ur functions.. The datalink connectors may not even be connected right so be careful..

regarding that, i was checking the harness and the diagrams a few days ago. the third connector for the EVO ECU had only 3 wires connected, though i KNOW there's more connections to it. Just an example of how i'm sure all the connections aren't made. I'll contact GOOSEY sometime next week to see if I can go over the connections with him sometime later this month. I'm gonna double and triple-check each connection and label each wire to what connection it makes. (might be time consuming but reassures me of what connections i have and the ones i need to rewire).

with the stock harness, do i just unplug the stock ECU, or is there another harness i can unplug from the firewall that releases the stock harness?

[4g63lover]

I'm not very knowledgable on ECU tuning and such, but as a consensus it seems like the best way to go if you had the funds to do so is to swap over to the EVO ECU or the M/T 3G ECU with a modified stock harness on a boosted SOHC 4G64.

But what if you are running a full 2.0L 4G63T, would you just be able to use the stock EVO engine harness or would you have to get a modified Galant/3G harness?

I thought I had a handle on this until I read this thread, I'm definitely lost now. lol

[Johnathansgalant]

Run - no u cant unhook the connectors its set -- so u can just unhook the stock ecu and leave the wires hanging or put up somewhere...



if ur using the stock harness then u need a harness if ur using an evo harness then u dont need anything additional... You have to run the evo 8 engine harness to not need anything if thats what you mean.. I think you can use a gst harness also and u will have to rewire or move a few pins here and there but its usable..

[4g63lover]

Run - no u cant unhook the connectors its set -- so u can just unhook the stock ecu and leave the wires hanging or put up somewhere...



if ur using the stock harness then u need a harness if ur using an evo harness then u dont need anything additional... You have to run the evo 8 engine harness to not need anything if thats what you mean.. I think you can use a gst harness also and u will have to rewire or move a few pins here and there but its usable..

I was on the right track all along. So if I'm running a full EVO engine set-up I wont need to do anything but acquire the ECU and harness.

So if I went with the EVO IX MIVEC 4G63T I would need the EVO IX ECU and harness correct?

[WhiteGalant]

Lol this has turned into an awesome thread, the mac/pc comparison helped alot lol.

[Johnathansgalant]

i am 99% sure yes all ull need is the evo 9 mivec engine ecu and harness.. I was looking into that and i couldnt find a reason why that would not work... for sure evo 8 engine harness and ecu -- if you get the 9 engine in i would like to know because thats what i would do if i could afford it --- althought someone has put a mivec head on a non mivec block i believe so it maybe easier to do a head swap and ecu swap but i havent had time to check up on that,..

glad i could shed some light -- i figured pc vs mac would be understood hhaha

[4g63lover]

Only thing about a MIVEC head on a non-MIVEC head is that you will need to get a custom oil squirter put in on the block and that could get pretty pricey. So I would rather just run the full MIVEC set-up than anything else.

I think when i boost the SOHC though, i will prolly just use EMU.

[qnz]

Theyve put a mivec head on a non mivec block. IIRC, they had to hack the evo 8 engine harness. The shop then thought it was too messy and ripped it out and used a mivec engine harness

[run1206]

Minor problem with the harness and the ECU, i don't think many of the connections that are needed are made. Here's some of the pics i took yesterday of it connected to the ECU.



I started labeling the pins and wires for the ecu and harness, so that i make sure i have all connections made. will try to finalize it sometime this week.


Here is what i was talking about. EVO ECU has 2 rows. That 2nd connector to the ecu must have more than only 3 connections, i'll double check this tomorrow morning with the ECU sheets johnathansgalant made.


Top: EVO ECU connections have two (2) rows
Bottom:Stock harness for Galant has three (3) rows