V6 "Big Map" is becoming reality

[SPD_FRK]

This has all been talked about for a while, theories of how to go about it and so on. I have recently been working with somebody on creating the "Big Map" for the 01-03 Galant, and 01-05 Eclipse V6 platforms running boost. Currently however we only have this one ROM finished for the 05 (which I believe should suit the 03-05 V6), the 01-02 ROM will be worked on next when this initial patch is finalized...please be patient.


Current Features on this patch;
"Big Maps" High/Low Octane Ignition and Fuel (30 x 30)
Knock on CEL
MUT Table
2Byte Load
MAF Clipping Coefficient
Injector Battery Voltage Latency Compensation
Accel Enrichment
Open Loop Load #1 and #2
Min Coolant Temp for Closed Loop
Injector Scaling
MAF Scaling
MAF Smoothing
MAF Sensor Filtering
MAF Size
Rev Limit
Speed Limit
Desired ISCV initial step position with AC on/off - Drive/Neutral
Desired Idle RPM Neutral/Drive


High Octane Fuel Map


High Octane Ignition Map


Knock on CEL, MUT Table



This patch is all done by "Acamus" and he is doing this on a "donationware" basis. Any and all donations are greatly appreciated to show appreciation for his hard work, and continued support with developing this patch.
V6 Patch Donation


Input/Feedback/Suggestions welcome

[qnz]

glad you got the ball rolling.

Looks almost as sexy as mine :D


theres a few more cells off the edge of the monitor. hehe

[johnygezony]

[SPD_FRK]

Just to update a bit in this thread.

We have the flash working for the most part on the 2005 Eclipse GT. The Knock on CEL function works perfectly. The Evo IX ROM file was compared to the Eclipse's ROM file to find out if the load calculation is different between the two, but has since been confirmed they are identical.

We also have verified with 2byte load that it is seeing above 100% Loads (140 to be specific). The ECU is completely running off the Big Maps for both fuel and ignition, originally there was some skepticism is the Big Maps were even being used.

There is still more digging and stuff going on, but we are one step closer to a finished and fully operational flash for the V6.

[beam514]

Nice update Matt. It's nice to have some good, clean updates over here, as opposed to the Jerry Springer stuff that's going on... over there

[SPD_FRK]

Nice update Matt. It's nice to have some good, clean updates over here, as opposed to the Jerry Springer stuff that's going on... over there

Ehh, not much I can do about what goes on elsewhere. People are entitled to their own opinions and perspective of things. At this point though I know the developer working on this knows his stuff extremly well and I have 100% faith in the guy to get this working for us. Not many others have even taken any of this to the level it is at now.

[qnz]

Im glad you took the initiative and did this

[fatal1]

yea im definately looking forward to having a solid tune that i can just flash

[SPD_FRK]

Well so far based on my reading, and inquiring more with the developer about the 2byte Load stuff...it seems this flash is working and doing what it needs to be doing. Looking over the EvoScan log I received earlier today this is what I saw;

2byte Load reading;
142.5 at 3100 RPMs, and tapering off to 130.9 at roughly 6100 RPMs.

We see the same type of information again later in the log;
133.75 @ 4750 RPMs
134.3 @ 5968 RPMs
Peak load of 141.5 @ 4656 and 5062 RPMs

Later in the log I see a high point. At roughly 3700 RPM (specifically 3687) we see what would be "full boost" on this specific setup, which has a 2byte Load of 159.68 (call it 160). Throughout the log I see the highest Knock Sum of 10 (Only 3 instances), for the most part there is very low/no knock whatsoever. Still has some tuning left to do I believe, but this is still good news.

[keith6110]

This is exciting! hopefully i will be able to use this. I have an 04 gts ecu that will need to be flashed eventually.

[SPD_FRK]

This is exciting! hopefully i will be able to use this. I have an 04 gts ecu that will need to be flashed eventually.

This flash being done right now should cover the 03-05 Eclipse V6 models. The only issue I know you will have with running an 03-05 Eclipse ECU is the pinout is completely different, and there is an additional circuit added for a fuel temp sensor.

[qnz]

only 160 load? how many lbs is it running?

[SPD_FRK]

only 160 load? how many lbs is it running?

It is only pushing 5psi or so on an SDS. It's his daily and he hasn't really pushed it more yet until he can get a chance to build an engine for it. There aren't too many folks running higher boost on the V6 that I am aware of

[SPD_FRK]

Reading through the Big Map thread I posted on Club3g I found a former Galant member posted...

Trust me, I'm not wrong about the MAF cap, at least for a model year 2001 V6 Eclipse/Galant.

You will find that once you're making any significant power or torque whatsoever, that the stock MAF input just won't work any more.

Making around 700 lb-ft at the crank, I would have been registering at least ~300% load. That is something I guarantee the stock MAF will not let you register. That's the equivalent of about 1600 Hz @ 4500 RPM. Not gonna happen.

Read what I said one more time... I should have more specifically stated the stock ROM cannot register above 100% load, but what I said about the MAF limit holds true. You're going to have to figure that one out for yourself. All of what I said above of course only applies to a proper suck-through MAF setup... Things become greatly complicated when you start talking about a (crappy) blow-through setup.

Anyway, good luck with that... and especially good luck with seeing 10 knock count under load on a boosted 6G7x. That won't last very long, any which way.

edit: and I remember more clearly now. MAF input is capped on the ECU side because I tried feeding it higher airflow values via my e-MU speed density setup, and it would not register anything higher than 1150 Hz. Made tuning for 23 PSI of boost a real bitch...

Apparently the MAF is "capped" at 1150 Hz and will not read anything higher such as boost pressures. This confuses me quite a bit actually as I posted this in response...

"The way you tuned was in the past and we are trying to move onto something much better. Though you mention very legit items to take into consideration, one would have to consider the alternative of an MAF from the 3000 GT platform if necessary.

We also need to wonder how the MAF is able to be used within the piggyback setup fine, but apparently as you state it is "capped" at roughly 1150hz. If this is true, we also need to consider how the 4cyl platforms are running the stock MAF sensor (Ivory8g I know is) on a boosted setup. Even those here in the Eclipse community who have flashed the Evo's ROM to their Eclipse ECU are I assume still running the stock Eclipse MAF. I know there is a member here in Colorado who is running that combination atleast...


Maybe I am just going in a circle on this issue, but to me something just doesn't add up."

[RedGalant2k1]

What you are doing is a whole other level then what Warm did, even without knowing all the technical details, I can see that. It isn't even a contest.

[beam514]

Matt, didn't WarmandSCSI state that the 1150 Hz cap was within the ECU, not the MAF itself?

Also, knowing Warm's professional skills, I take it that his ideas about the ECU are completely credible, though he obviously could have missed something back when he was trying to tune. But I wouldn't throw his words away easily, if at all

but to anyone that wants to bring up some old past drama: don't. That's all I can say.

[SPD_FRK]

Matt, didn't WarmandSCSI state that the 1150 Hz cap was within the ECU, not the MAF itself?

Also, knowing Warm's professional skills, I take it that his ideas about the ECU are completely credible, though he obviously could have missed something back when he was trying to tune. But I wouldn't throw his words away easily, if at all

but to anyone that wants to bring up some old past drama: don't. That's all I can say.

Yea, it now appears that the MAF limit, or "cap" is not on the MAF itself, but rather within the ECU (which still has yet to be confirmed if it is "capped").

What you are doing is a whole other level then what Warm did, even without knowing all the technical details, I can see that. It isn't even a contest.

He has definitely pushed the envelope on the platform, and in fact has found a lot of key parts that held back the power output levels of the motor, but at the same time I know he hadn't taken the stock Galant ROMs any further past the OEM settings. In short, he was still dabbling with tuning via a piggyback as the ECU at that point in time stll had not been hacked to read above 100% load either...allbeit still a success on the platform with what he did, it still wasn't anything beyond what many of the 4cyl folks have been doing for years honestly.

He has been very mature and reasonable with the participation on the discussion which is good. He has a lot of background on the platform and everything is taken in rather than just ignored. I actually have used a lot of his build notes/information for my own setup for good reason.

The biggest "disappointment" to him right now is that we are only testing on a "low" build with only hitting the 160% load range. Truth be told, yes it is a very small range being tested right now, but then again we have broken through the 100% load "barrier" at this point which was never previously done even. There is a lot more to go through and test, but not many are pushing the high boost or HP levels yet that would really put this flash through a full range of testing each load column.

He has made the following suggestions for additional features/controls, which are very well considered if we can do them;
1.) Fuel and ignition tables working for up to 340% load
2.) MAF Hz recognition of 1600+ Hz (as would be required by the above)
3.) Getting around any potential timing retard limits (the Evo X has these for the MR model, the auto V6 might have these as well)
4.) 2-byte logging of load
5.) MAP support so people can log boost, and the ECU can potentially use the MAP like the JDM Evo IX and Evo X do.
6.) ECU boost control! As nice as the Evo X's would be great... (this would put it above any piggyback and put it in AEM EMS territory)
7.) load limits for over-boost (wastegate malfunction) protection


So far we have the 2byte Load logging, and control/tuning of the Fuel and Ignition tables up to the 160% load range (and tables mapped out enough to reach the 340-360% ranges depending on how they are indexed). The timing limits, if any exist has to be looked into more. The MAF Hz recognition I believe is a simple alteration so instead of g/s (grams per second), it will read Hz instead. MAP support to log boost is something I have to look into more to understand, but I don't think it is a big "patch" needed to have done in order to have working. ECU boost control, and load limits are also things that will have to be looked at from the Evo ECUs to see if they can be implemented into the Galant/Eclipse ROM files to become another working feature.



Believe me, I have the majority of my focus and "drive" on this development to work. Anybody regardless of who they are, can discuss what they know, or need to know and I take everything into consideration to better understand everything involved with this stuff.

[Night_neo2000]

just curious if this has been finished and how well did it work? with or without more additional changes.

[Silvertune]

I'm running it on my 3g at over 500whp. No problems.