lets talk natrually aspirated

[Exhaust power]

So for right now i have a
Kamikaze header
G4JS pistons
CAI(installed)
Im going to keep it SOHC. after i change my clutch and steering rack im going to do the timing belt etc... and swap in the pistons.

Im still looking for intake manifold options anybody know the difference in the 4g69's?
When ever im bored enough ill probably do some junk yard swaps if it dosent take to long.

[Isaurio]

I was searching around and the 4g69 is a 87mm bore with the same crank 100mm. Mani should fit. But dont take my word for it. Just get the 03 outlander mani. They look similar. You could try and let us know.

[Exhaust power]

I got my eyes open for a outlander but my current junk yard sucks when it comes to jdm suvs. If i find another 46G9 or 4G94 ill do some testing.

[midnight]

do 4g64 headers fit the sonata head?

[Exhaust power]

do 4g64 headers fit the sonata head?

Yes they do.

What 3 gauge pods should i get? The obvious is a wide band. The gauge cluster that i have has a volt meter, engine oil temp and compos.

[foxbrand]

wow, nice idea for a build, here's my thinkning here from what I have read already:

*if this has already been said, go ahead and ignore this post

high compression, about 11:1-11.5:1 should be suitable, if you don't have e85 locally, then at the most use 11.0:1, BUT another thing I should point out, if you massively uprated the cooling system (which will be needed anyway), a cooler thermostat can let you run slightly (and I mean slightly, like .1) higher compression

lighter rocipricating mass, yes, good call, forged pistons, aftermarket forged rods, a balanced crank and a lightweight flywheel should be a bit lighter that the stock bits (forged=stronger but heavier but can= less metal needed in application=less weight)

as for the head, I know that a couple guys mentioned that a MIVEC head is possible to hit your goal, but here's something wonderful, RPW has aftermarket cams avalible in MIVEC, I do belive a stage 3 from them would still be streetable as the more agressive cam profile isn't used at low RPM's. Also you probably will need new valvesprings, titanium would be the best choice in its strength and low mass. One strength of this head which it might share with it's v6 cousin (or distant relitive, whatever) is that the MIVEC head probably flows better stock that the none variable cam head, so take this into consideration.

ITB's? probably would be the best thing, but it is massively expensive to get a system working (and guys, don't flame me here), making the actual ITB manifold would probably be the cheapest part of this system, you then have to get the head flow matched (as well as making sure the seperate intake runners) and probably custom headers will be needed for near perfect distribution. In addition, you need a way of metering the incoming air, if you run directly out of the atmosphere, seperate air filters will be needed and you need a MAS conversion, if you have an airbox (which is connected to a MAF), a MAP delete is still needed, and this specific set up might not give you perfect air distribution and take full advantage of this set up. All of the previous still leaves tuning and diveability, tuning probably will be expensive, as you (ignoring a MIVEC head) will need either a heavily moded ECU or a standalone, depending on the length of the intake runners, if they are short (more top end power), then there will be little bottom end power and will reduce drivability, email RPW about this, they will give you some better info anyway. Be forwarned, it is not unheard of for an ITB conversion to cost upward of ten grand

Also an idea I have about this, use the lower runners, then make a plenum that bolts directly onto it, and then cut 4 holes in line with the runners, then bolt a throttle body over each hole, this (in theory) will simplify tuning a good bit as there will be no sensors deleted (except for the MAF if desired)

Also, in regards to headers, contact Hytech, there products are expensive (for the v6, massively so), but they will give you a massive increase in power, so keep that idea on the table.

If you are just about to start building up the engine, for the car being functional and for costs, start by building the bottum end, then the head (weather it is MIVEC or not), then headers, and the intake, but before you use something radical like MIVEC or ITB's (or my funky halfway solution), figure out the engine managment before you invest the money


don't be intimidated by what you need, this is a great idea for a project, even if you break 200 whp, that would be amazing, good luck

just my two cents people

[Blue8g]

ITB's aren't that expensive.

Buy ITB's off of crotch rocket.
Make runners that will go from head to ITB's
Figure out other systems.
Tune car.

[Exhaust power]

The main idea about my theory is a good N/A set up that most enthusiast can do. Head ,engine swaps yeah but when you get into building the bottom end youll need a machine shop or the equipment of one to even get started. The 4G69 mivec head might flow better then the 4G64 but the G4JS has bigger ports and more chance of flowing better then both.

The G4JS is my best bet and secondly using a 4G64(head) G4JS(block) hybrid.
Im just going to swap engines replace the parts i need to get it working right then i have millions of options open for parts since the evo head is almost identical. 10.0:1 will be suffice

I all ready have installed
CAI
Kamakazi header
Thunder bolt cat
2.5 cat back .

Next is a G4JS
272/264 blox cams
evo valve springs
then tune it
and maybe
evo IM

[n3oAcid24]

did you ever get the RPW cam installed? I wanted to see if you have a picture of it on or in the process of being installed. I have one that I am going to install in a few weeks and just wanted to see a pic. Thanks.

[Isaurio]

Evo intake mani wont fit the SOHC. Outlander mani and diamante tb is your best bet. Bro just by getting some RPW cams will do a lot and a good tune to make a good fuel and timing map, since you letting more air in. Also changing ecu and getting bigger injectors and scaled them down for the right amount of air coming in. you are set.

I have learned now that im messing a doing a lots of research on how the ecu, pcm works and how the engine makes power. Headers and other mod such as cai and bigger tb wont do much since the stock maps are set for oem settup. You need to tune the ecu for every mod you do to the engine such as letting more air in. By tuning you will make power no matter what.

MIVEC head wont work since u need the MIVEC pcm for the cam sensor readings and maps.

[foxbrand]

ITB's aren't that expensive.

Buy ITB's off of crotch rocket.
Make runners that will go from head to ITB's
Figure out other systems.
Tune car.

a full custom set up is freakishly expensive, that is what I meant

though, my sort of ITB set up using a plenum would be the cheapest overall as a new intake system, especially if you use the ITB's from a motorcycle, and then mount them to the top of a plenum (and block off the original port for the TB), not much tuning needed, no systems deleted sans the MAF if you want, just some wiring for the throttle body position sensor, end of story, while this doesn't take advantage of a full ITB set up, the flow rate from 4 throttle bodies is still there, but they are not truely individual

the key advantage of the MIVEC head is that the high speed cam is basically a race cam, and the everyday drivability is still there, I was just throwing that out there, a regular cylinder head is far more economic, though if you want to ever go that route, contact SPD_FRK about getting a 5 speed ECU conversion harness, those harnesses for the 4 cylinders can run an EVO ECU for the engine, then the regular ECU for the instruments in the cabin, that might be able to be adapted for a MIVEC ECU, once again, just throwing out the MIVEC set up out there again

I do like that you want to do this build so everyone else can do it as well, but with this specific route, there not much of a pre existing path, so of course this is not going to be cheap

the easiest off the shelf mods I can reccomend would be a 5 speed swap, EVO ecu (using a Blackheart motors wiring harness), EVO head (+intake manifold and headers that fit), and NA cams

also, there are many, MANY aftermarket Evo intake manifolds on the market that will support bigger TB's, so a quick search will turn them up fast

once again, just my thoughts on the matter

[Blue8g]

a full custom set up is freakishly expensive, that is what I meant

though, my sort of ITB set up using a plenum would be the cheapest overall as a new intake system, especially if you use the ITB's from a motorcycle, and then mount them to the top of a plenum (and block off the original port for the TB), not much tuning needed, no systems deleted sans the MAF if you want, just some wiring for the throttle body position sensor, end of story, while this doesn't take advantage of a full ITB set up, the flow rate from 4 throttle bodies is still there, but they are not truely individual

the key advantage of the MIVEC head is that the high speed cam is basically a race cam, and the everyday drivability is still there, I was just throwing that out there, a regular cylinder head is far more economic, though if you want to ever go that route, contact SPD_FRK about getting a 5 speed ECU conversion harness, those harnesses for the 4 cylinders can run an EVO ECU for the engine, then the regular ECU for the instruments in the cabin, that might be able to be adapted for a MIVEC ECU, once again, just throwing out the MIVEC set up out there again

I do like that you want to do this build so everyone else can do it as well, but with this specific route, there not much of a pre existing path, so of course this is not going to be cheap

the easiest off the shelf mods I can reccomend would be a 5 speed swap, EVO ecu (using a Blackheart motors wiring harness), EVO head (+intake manifold and headers that fit), and NA cams

also, there are many, MANY aftermarket Evo intake manifolds on the market that will support bigger TB's, so a quick search will turn them up fast

once again, just my thoughts on the matter

The way I was suggesting doesn't take huge investment, and is a true ITB set up

[foxbrand]

I understand that perfectly, just my thinking on the matter that doesn't involve heavy sensor mods or deletes while giving high gains

[Blue8g]

ITB's don't give high gains. In an N/A build everything has to be done specifically to complement every other mod.

[Exhaust power]

I do like that you want to do this build so everyone else can do it as well, but with this specific route, there not much of a pre existing path, so of course this is not going to be cheap

the easiest off the shelf mods I can reccomend would be a 5 speed swap, EVO ecu (using a Blackheart motors wiring harness), EVO head (+intake manifold and headers that fit), and NA cams

also, there are many, MANY aftermarket Evo intake manifolds on the market that will support bigger TB's, so a quick search will turn them up fast

once again, just my thoughts on the matter

Im already 5 speed swapped. Many of the things you talked about have been touched on and ive taken everything into account long ago.

[mysticj]

ITB's don't give high gains. In an N/A build everything has to be done specifically to complement every other mod.

Yes, it's a science all of itself which why boosting is "easier" to do.

[foxbrand]

I don't have too much experence with really high performance NA systems when it comes to tuning, mostly just with individual parts, but I have done research into stuff to an NA intake and exhaust so that if I ever go the route of pure NA power, I already have the information for just bair bones parts, so let me add a couple links that you might find useful for making an intake system and an exhaust system so you can precisely make a system for your car
*if this has already been posted, go ahead and ignore this
http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com...?cid=44&step=2

http://www.hytechexhaust.com/
http://coneeng.com/
fully explore cone eng's website, the amount of stuff they have for making headers is incredible, also Hytech sellscollectors in several varities

[Isaurio]

People dont understand what ever mod you make to a modern engine it has to go thru the pcm. I dont hear nothing in this thread about tuning the computer is all about engine modification. Like i said u need to get the computer happy to make the engine happy. Some cars you could put a intake mani and put some headers but only IF the computer is able to re-adjust it self with the new mod without modification on the rom. Our pcm/computer does not do that. It only TRYS and hope for the best. The only thing you will gain with all the mod is knock on the engine insted of making power you will loose power.

[foxbrand]

exactly, ECU reflashing is one of the greatest tools anybody can have, without it, we truely can't do anything outside of basic bolt ons, at least in my posts I have mentioned that tuning is a must with the heavier mods, especially when I was typing about the amount of ECU mods needed for an ITB conversion

[SPD_FRK]

exactly, ECU reflashing is one of the greatest tools anybody can have, without it, we truely can't do anything outside of basic bolt ons, at least in my posts I have mentioned that tuning is a must with the heavier mods, especially when I was typing about the amount of ECU mods needed for an ITB conversion

Tuning is not a "must" for just heavier engine modifications. A stock vehicle can achieve much better results with a tune, myself and Marc have personally seen the results on a 100% stock Evo X with a tune done.

Once you start doing things as simple as an Intake, or cat back exhaust, you should be getting a tune done then as well to get the most of the bolt-ons, otherwise as my good friend Isaurio stated the stock ROM file is only making its best effort to adjust timing and fuel based on the OEM parts/settings in the PCM (which are poor settings even for stock).


As for tuning with an ITB setup, that will most likely require a speed density configuration rather than the load% based setup that is on most vehicles. The ECU mods needed for tuning the ITB route would require the Evo VIII ECM and flashing the speed density patch to the computer. Be prepared to spend a very lengthy time dialing this in though, especially if you don't know what you are doing, or looking for.

Building an ITB setup is quite easy, and inexpensive for what it is. As Blue8g said you can simply find a junked motorcycle and pull the parts off of it. Simply having a flange made, and intake tube diameter/length chosen, weld it up. Then you will just need a bracket made to adapt the OEM Throttle Position Sensor onto the ITB throttle plate shaft...honestly this could be done for a few hundred dollars depending on how much your parts cost you and if you can weld it yourself.


The niggest advantage you will get from an N/A engine build is going to be increasing the displacement...period. You can do a stroker, with a larger bore, and raise the compression ratio up to about 10-11:1 depending on fuels you will run. TO make the best results, you want to start from within the engine and work your way out and add components based on what was built, and it's intended purposes. You don't want to buy a wild cam intended for drag racing if you are using the vehicle primarily as a daily driver.