Start up problem: Is it my piston rings?

[arkaine13]

Hello everyone, and good day!

I have a 4g63 SOHC 7G galant with a start up problem. When I do a cold start, it would take several attempts for me to get the engine running (usually with a dash of gas pedal presses). I have tried all of the following things to make it work at the first cold start, but none of these has ever worked:

1. New plugs
2. cleaned MAF (I tried starting the car with the MAF disconnected, it works when it is not a cold start, so I guess this is not the culprit)
3. Checked the injectors (I even cleaned them).
4. Checked the timing
5. Replaced the plug wires
6. Replaced Cylinder head (from a low mileage car with the same SOHC 4G63)

To note, the engine cranks at every attempt, sometimes I hear an ignition, but it never gets the engine going. Now the question that I have been dreading to ask, "is this problem related to my piston rings? Do I have a bad seal in my pistons?" To add to this, when I do get the engine running, there is a few seconds of hesitation in the engine when I put it into gear (this is something that I still experience even with an ATF fluid change, Diamond SPIII). However, once it gets warmed up, it runs considerably well without any hiccups.

I was thinking of doing an engine swap, but being in a country that has complicated laws when it comes to changing an engine, I decided to stick with the engine itself. Any advice would be very much appreciated here :)

[Galanttuner10]

here is the problem, you cant just throw parts at a car, look at how much money you wasted thus far. as for it being rings, unless you are smoking really bad they are fine and would not cause an issue, a bad ring is a bad ring no matter cold or warm. also when you changed over the head you would have been able to see if the rings were bad by any abnormal signs of oil or anything like that.

now lets get into this, you need 3 things for a motor to run fuel, compression and spark. when you first crank the car and it doesn't start grab a can of starting fluid or ether and spray it onto the filter then go back and crank the car, if it cranks right over its an intermittent fuel issue and you need to check the pump and filter etc because the pump could not be building pressure fast enough or the filter is clogged.

if that changes nothing verify spark at the spark plug. first thing would be pulling the fuel pump fuse or relay so you don't pour gas into the cylinder. pull the wire, then pull the plug then put the plug back in the wire. lay the plug on something metal and have a friend go turn the key and watch if there is spark at the plug.

if those tests come back good i would do a leak down test to show exactly where you are losing compression. post up after the fuel and spark tests

[arkaine13]

Thanks for the reply :) When you say spraying ether or starting fluid for the filter, do you mean the air filter or the fuel filter? I did try the spark test, and I do have a spark in it. Yeah, it is quite a shame that I have been throwing some money on changing the parts, this is actually my first car, and I have been obsessing with how I could restore it to its proper working order. The previous owner has messed up this wonderful car, and the whole processes of restoring it has been very much educational on my part (and expensive). Oh by the way, is that a turbocharged SOHC Galant on your signature box? It looks awesome!

[Galanttuner10]

im mean to spray it into the air filter. and yes it is a single cam 2.4 4G64 turbo, which is apart right now and will be a DOHC 4G64 come spring

[mko]

Two things i can think of:

1. The fuel pressure regulator isnt holding the fuel in the fuel rail so it needs a couple of cranks for the pump to bring the fuel to the rail

or

2. The FIAV (fast idle air valve) is completely shut or clogged which does not allow air to enter the engine on cold start (thats why you keep your foot on the pedal). When the engine is warmed up, the air provided by the IAC (idle air control) or the BISS (base idle screw) is enough for it to start. Maybe the entire bottom part of the throttle body is shot. IDK

When you try to do a cold start, try pumping the pedal instead of holding it down at certain position. Report back here when you try this.

[arkaine13]

Hello again everyone, first of all for Galanttuner10 I can't find any starting fluid in the Philippines, I guess it is not a common item for this country because what we would usually do on a troublesome startup is to push the car and hold the clutch in second gear and as it is going we let go and try to crank it till it starts. I looked up the ethanol part, and suffice to say I was quite afraid of inducing detonation in my engine. If I get my hands on some ethanol, how much is enough?

For mko, I can't find any leaks on the fuel rail or problems with the injectors. However, having mentioned the fast Idle air valve, I do remember seeing a disconnected hose near the throttle body and before the MAF sensor. It has been bothering me since the hose is just simply plugged by a screw, and I have no idea where it should actually go or why it was plugged by the car's previous owner. I am going to take some pictures of my car's (embarrassing) engine bay for details.

This has been a very big help for me, I have consulted five different mechanics and none of these mechanics are able to resolve this problem. Thank you very much!

[arkaine13]

Oh and yes, when I crank the car, I just tap the gas in "the right way" as I have figured out that flooring it would just simply make the engine die.

[mko]

you wont see leaks around the fuel rail, because the fuel pressure regulator dumps all fuel back in the tank. Thats what i meant by not holding fuel. But try pumping the pedal when starting a cold engine

[arkaine13]

Here are some pictures:

I am starting to think that this is a problem with the throttle body, the reason for that is that once it cranks and warms up, the car works perfectly well.

In this picture, you will see the lower part of the throttle body, the hose is cut off and is blocked by a screw.


This is the offending screw.


On the left side of this picture you will see a black round cylinder, the top of the cylinder seems to have a connector that isn't attached to a hose or anything. The bottom part is connected to the throttle body in the next picture


This is the top picture of the throttle body, the top connecting hose is connected to the bottom part of the black cylinder mentioned in the previous picture. There are two other connecting parts on top of the throttle body, and I don't know where they are supposed to go.


And this is the entire engine bay.

[mko]

I fixed your pictures.


The FIAV is fed with coolant thru these hoses. Thats how it determines when the engine's cold so it opens the air passages in the throttle body. When the engine warms up it closes these passages and lets the IAC take control.

If someone blocked this off then there must have been a problem with it. I forget which hose this is - the feed or return, but either way, look under the throttle body (TB) - a steel water pipe that feeds coolant to the heater core inside should be under there. On top of the water pipe there's a nipple extension where one of the TB hoses goes to. The other hose goes to side of the head under the distributor. See which one you're missing and re-run the hose.

[arkaine13]

Thank you for patching up the photos, now it took me some time to figure out what you said, but you are correct in saying that the line that feeds coolant to the throttle body is blocked off. That explains a lot of the problems I encounter when I start my car. The tubing is connected to the distributor, and judging from what I have seen there I think there are no problems with it. I'm going to run the line when I have some time later, but I'm just curious with about these things:
1. What could have been the reason that this tube was blocked off? Does anyone know or had this experience before?
2. Could something bad happen if I reconnect the blocked tube to its original connection?
3. A few months ago, I blew up the lower part of my radiator because of a malfunctioning fan (It was intermittently shutting off, and when I checked the wiring, it was running in only one constant speed), and I have noticed that my temperature gauge was only reporting that the heat was normal (the needle was perfectly in the middle). Do I also have some issues with my thermostat? It does however tell me that my engine is cold during starts, but when it gets warmed up, it stays in the middle.

This has been a big help for me, I have seen a lot of mechanics and none of these people could ever explain what is actually wrong with my car.

[mko]

1. There must have been a problem with it and someone fixed it. Its usually called idle surge where the rpms go up and down when the engine is idling. And yes its a very common problem with mitsubishi - I had it a while ago and it was annoying the crap out of me. There are a couple of solutions tho.

2. Bad - no, but the problem may reoccur.

3. Its seems fine, the needle should be in the middle. Make sure the fans are working, all fuses are good and maybe get an used right side fan (cooling fan) and replace it so both speeds are working.

[arkaine13]

Could the idle surge be fixed by cleaning the throttle body? Or do I have to replace the entire throttle body?

[mko]

Yes, but you need to get the TB out first, then when you flip it you'll see 6 phillips screws that need to come out (be careful tho these like to strip; use an impact screw driver or something). When it comes apart, clean both halves

[MitsuboiVRV6]

Sir, if you are from north area, bring your car to RICHCAR at banawe. or if you are from the south take it to qucik start performance and look for Mac.

[arkaine13]

Interesting, is quick start performance near Cavite?