60k miles - $1500 !!

[Danger DANJ]

My 1999 ES V6 Galant finally hit 60k miles and I just got it back from the dealership this afternoon for the big service. The damage was $1,585.26!! Talk about an ass reaming. Here is the thing that gets me. Labor is $79 an hour and the total labor charge was $849. That means they worked on my car for 10.75 hours, right? Well that's fucking impossible! I dropped my car off at 7:30 am and the place closes at 5:30 pm. Even if they worked on the car all day, that's still only 10 hours, and there is no way they even spent that much time on my car. Is that some ill shit or what?! It's like, oh it took 15 minutes to do this, but it's a minimum of an hour labor charge. Atleast that's the way it looks to me. There are a couple things on my bill that were charged an hour labor that doesn't take that long. Let's break it down, shall we?

60,000 mile service - without an oil change since I do it myself.
labor: $79
parts: $24.73

Replaced Timing Belt
labor: $375
parts: $125

Replaced Drive Belts
labor: $0
parts: $58

Replaced Water Pump
labor: $79
parts: $147.50

Replaced Spark Plugs & Wires - I supplied my own Magnecor wires
labor: $237
parts: $87.50

Replaced Distributor Cap & Rotor and PCV Valve
labor: $0
parts: $69.52

Tranny Fluid Flush & Filter
labor: $79
parts: $117.30

Totals:
labor: $849
parts: $629.55
Waste Disposal: $3
Tax: $103.71

Grand Total of $1,585.26

That's with no oil change and supplying my own spark plug wires. I want to know why they charged me labor for the water pump when they already had everything apart to do the timing belt? Even if there is some labor involved, it's not anywhere near an hour.

[DarkLateNight]

that's such a lie --- dude, why do they try to rip us off like that!!?!?

[Niytrus]

bullshit... i would try and talk to someone about that. No way that took them 10 hours

[matrix8228]

damn talk about ass reaming....That is why i never go to the dealer no matter what. Also $500 to get a timing belt replaced...you got the salty penis on that one. I was charged $325 for everything including labor, belts and water pump. Next time look around before going to the dealership.

[mike969mb]

Well like most mechanics, they use a book i forgot the name and whatever amount of time it supposed to take them to fix or repair somethign that is what they use, and the book uses the time without power and air tools. And they say if a mechanic uses his own air tools or power ones its to his advantage etc etc. Stupid in my option.

Anyone know howmuch they charge for 30k service anychance?

[Auto-9]

Damn man you got ripped hard. My mother's Sienna was "only" 900 bucks. Makes me even more wary of going to the dealership.

[manybrews]

apparently, you dont realize how this works.

the "times" that are used come from a combination of places. ASE, the manufacturers, etc.etc.
they are designed using hand tools, and an average of 3 teardowns.
The advantage is that when a person gets good at it and purchases specialty tools, he can cut that time down. Its called "productivity", and ALL jobs work that way.

The work would take a normal man 10 hours to do (in theory).. it would take me about 60 percent of that, 'cause Im blindingly fast on Mitsus, have the 30 grand in tools ive aquired over 10 years, and various other reasons.

that is how blue collar workers make money. but it can backfire, too.. If the job only pays 5 hours, but takes us 10, WE have to eat it. you do not.
and that DOES happen.
those EXACT same times are used by ALL shops. the dealerships are not using anything that your local little hacker shop doesnt use in regards to time charged.
so no, you did not get "screwed". the only thing that looks a bit high to me is the labor for plug replacement.
although the breakdown of it is odd.. MOST of that stuff is done on a 60k service, minus the water pump.
That, and packaged services like a 60k are generally priced much more reasonably (i think a 60k at my dealer for a v6 galant runs about 900 bucks, which includes t-belt and plugs/wires). when stuff is seperated like that, it usually costs more.

[Danger DANJ]

Well, I realize how mechanics get paid, but I expected to pay no more than $800 - $900 for a 60k mile service. Manybrews, thank you for your input. After hearing what your dealership charges, I'm definitely going to fight it. I didn't even get an oil change and I supplied my own wires, which should make the 60k mile service even cheaper than $900. Then add the price of the water pump and that should be the grand total.

[GalantRawr]

I paid the dealship $579 for a Timing Belt Replacement and a Tranny Flush.
I didnt even think about having them replace the water pump and other belts...nor did they even try to sell them to me. The rest of the 60k service I either did my self or had a local Carx do the rest. That costs another $300 or so I believe, which makes me think you got seriously hosed.

Installing a Water Pump + the other belts shouldnt cost that much more extra labor imho since they have to be removed during the Timing Belt install anyway (I think). Smack me on this if those that know know otherwise.

I cant see where they get off slaming you for the Typical Time per Item when some of the tasks can be done concurrently.

I also wonder about what sort of quote they gave you before you allowed them to work on your car. If they told you it would be $1500 before you took your car there, then you cant really complain can you.

[Auto-9]

If the job only pays 5 hours, but takes us 10, WE have to eat it.

Like my 7 hour oil change

[TITAN]

there is no way all shops use the same time sheet dealy. dealer is always gonna give it to you dry. i asked the dealer how much it would cost to find out the problem with my gauges, they said 1 hour of labor which is $121!!! then they would charge me MORE to fix the problem. my local shop that I used to go to for most things on my old car said only about $50-70. HUGE diference, but I still didnt want to pay. Needless to say I went weeks before making the decision to do it myself. Took about 1 hour TOTAL to find problem and fix it.


They also tell me that if I want a car manual, it would be $250, cuz its the one that the mechanics use.

[BlueESV6]

I spoke with the dealership since also was due for the timing belt job (on V6) and they said it was billed out at 8 labor hours.... I knew it was going to be a lot since they also recommended you get the other belts, plugs and wires, and water pump along with that.

I'm still saving change and mustering the courage to go the the shop... it's almost like a punishment!!! (my corolla was $145) :shock:

[Dominicano]

I think these books have to be updated, that is crazy. Somebody in the pricing department needs to take some economics, i really refuse to take my car to the dealer for small stuff. in my dealer ship its the same things 79 dollars an hour that is just sickening. but really who that hells calculate stuff by hand tool hello!!!! welcome to the 21st Century!!!!!. We should boycott the dealers and lets see if they dont lower their prices.

[manybrews]

I think these books have to be updated, that is crazy. Somebody in the pricing department needs to take some economics, i really refuse to take my car to the dealer for small stuff. in my dealer ship its the same things 79 dollars an hour that is just sickening. but really who that hells calculate stuff by hand tool hello!!!! welcome to the 21st Century!!!!!. We should boycott the dealers and lets see if they dont lower their prices.

excuse me, but who do you think deserves to benefit from the power tools?
you? or the tech that bought them and does the work?
if its that easy, why doesnt everyone here do it?
because its NOT easy nor cheap.

besides, I dont know if you caught the part in which I said ALL REPAIR SHOPS use the same times. the labor rate isnt much cheaper at the independants, either.

[manybrews]

there is no way all shops use the same time sheet dealy. dealer is always gonna give it to you dry. i asked the dealer how much it would cost to find out the problem with my gauges, they said 1 hour of labor which is $121!!! then they would charge me MORE to fix the problem. my local shop that I used to go to for most things on my old car said only about $50-70. HUGE diference, but I still didnt want to pay. Needless to say I went weeks before making the decision to do it myself. Took about 1 hour TOTAL to find problem and fix it.


They also tell me that if I want a car manual, it would be $250, cuz its the one that the mechanics use.

youre right.. not all use the same one. theres one by alldata, one by chilton, one by mitchell, one by motor, plus the manufacurers times (which are ALWAYS less than any of the others).
but theyre ALL withing about 5 percent of each other.

[TITAN]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(manybrews)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(knightriderXXX)</div><div class='quotemain'>there is no way all shops use the same time sheet dealy. dealer is always gonna give it to you dry. i asked the dealer how much it would cost to find out the problem with my gauges, they said 1 hour of labor which is $121!!! then they would charge me MORE to fix the problem. my local shop that I used to go to for most things on my old car said only about $50-70. HUGE diference, but I still didnt want to pay. Needless to say I went weeks before making the decision to do it myself. Took about 1 hour TOTAL to find problem and fix it. Â*


They also tell me that if I want a car manual, it would be $250, cuz its the one that the mechanics use. </div>
youre right.. not all use the same one. theres one by alldata, one by chilton, one by mitchell, one by motor, plus the manufacurers times (which are ALWAYS less than any of the others).
but theyre ALL withing about 5 percent of each other.</div>

well 50-70, let say 60, is %50 of $121. and why the hell is it $121 when the rest of you are talking about $79??

again, does anyone know why there is not a manual for 99+ at our local parts store???

[Dominicano]

alright manybrew how about this? when i went to the dealer so they can install the torsion bar for the trunk they charged me 76 dollars to install it? and it wasnt a good job at it either cause the flang that holds the bar ended up bending? how is that for a rip off? sorry man everyone got a right to make a living, i understand that but for some things its just way over board. Just cause you pay for you tools does not mean that i got to pay for it. . anyway enough with the tools its not like you get 50 percent of the labor am i correct? cause if thats the case then you would of been done paid for you tools in like what 3-5 years? so after you finish paying off your tools what am i paying for now? a job that takes 15 munites you still gonna charge me an hour?

i was going to leave this alone but i got to ask you more, how long does it take to program a new key so it can be in sequence? one hour? come on tell the truth it takes like 15 munites right? another 79 i had to dish out, i was in the office waiting 25 munites so i know its was less then that because there were like 2 people ahead of me.

[manybrews]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dominicano)</div><div class='quotemain'>alright manybrew how about this? Â*when i went to the dealer so they can install the torsion bar for the trunk they charged me 76 dollars to install it? Â*</div>

if all this stuff is so easy, why doesnt everyone just do it?
76 bucks is pretty reasonable in todays economy, especially considering that if you tried to install the torsion bar and it kicked back on you, the bar has enough tension to tear you open pretty good.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
and it wasnt a good job at it either cause the flang that holds the bar ended up bending? Â*how is that for a rip off? </div>
hey, shitty work has nothing to do with it. just cause someone else is a poor tech doesnt mean Im going to take it in the shorts.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
sorry man everyone got a right to make a living, i understand that but for some things its just way over board. Â* Just cause you pay for you tools does not mean that i got to pay for it. </div>
youre confusing things. if I DIDNT have the tools, it would take me the full time to do these jobs. so I pay for the tools, and I increase my productivity, both through the use of the tools, experience, and common sense.
you gotta realize a few things about this industry.. the first several years, you make next to nothing. We got a rookie kid (age 20) in the shop. just today, he was repairing an older spyder convertible. he got paid 1.2 hours for the repair. he worked on it for almost 4.
I can do the same job in about 35 minutes. so its NOT just the tools, by a long shot.
does that mean you want to pay the 4 hours he was working on it, or the 1.2?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Â*anyway enough with the tools its not like you get 50 percent of the labor am i correct? Â*cause if thats the case then you would of been done paid for you tools in like what 3-5 years? </div>
No, i dont get 50 percent of the labor (i wish!). but the more hours I produce, the more money I make.. just like in any job that requires production.
but even now, 11 years later, i STILL owe the tool guys about 5 grand. its a never-ending bill, as cars are always changing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> so after you finish paying off your tools what am i paying for now? Â*a job that takes 15 munites you still gonna charge me an hour?</div>
absolutly. just because Im good at something doesnt mean Im gonna make less at it.
Im not out to "rip" anyone off.

[HeadAche]

Damn thats why i dont go to the dealership for nothing, they're always trying to stick it to ya...

[Dominicano]

i never said the job was easy i am just saying that if i am laying money down for other shit, and have the ordacity to charge me 76 for a job which i later found out that they dont even have the correct tool for it.

i don't care how many excuses you give me any place but a dealer will charge less, shit i get full synthic oil change, check my break oil the hinges and top all my other liquids for like 70 bucks i go to the dealer i get chepo mitsubishi oil and all the other stuff and they want 150.

lets put this six feet under cause you can't win manybrew, dealers are place where you get ripped a new hole after you purchase the car.