Turbocharger vs. Supercharger Thread

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(00GTZ00)</div><div class='quotemain'>That drag though stays at ~1% of the total output of the SC power. So if the SC is making 100 hp it will take 10hp to run the pully, 200 hp it will take 20 hp etc etc. not a bad offset in my book...what % of hp does the turbo rob from the engine? it is in the way of the exaust flow yaknow..and creating all that extra stress on the exaust manifold and head or heads..</div>
yes, it is in the way of exhaust flow, however, the turbo can basically "spool itself." That is, the excess air being forced into the cylinders spins the turbo much faster than it would without the excess exhaust gases. It's like a fake hp loss, if you know what i mean. It may be a loss, but it is overcome by the added air forced through the cylinders. With a supercharger, no matter how fast you spin the turbine, the supercharger will not stop sucking away power, in fact, it will suck away more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>205.5WHP GS 5SPD at only 5-6psi
188.1WHP ES Galant Automatic at only 5psi</div>

Do you have any numbers for the turbo set ups under the same boost pressure?

I'm hoping for approx. 240whp under 7 psi boost, only 1 psi more than the stated numbers. I can get numbers from honda-tech.com sometime later, But 99% of people with a 2.0L, 9.5-9.8:1 compression, and side mount intercooler are in the 220-260 whp range, with a turbo.

[Alister_McRae]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScootinIntegra)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>205.5WHP GS 5SPD at only 5-6psi
188.1WHP ES Galant Automatic at only 5psi</div>

Do you have any numbers for the turbo set ups under the same boost pressure?

I'm hoping for approx. 240whp under 7 psi boost, only 1 psi more than the stated numbers. I can get numbers from honda-tech.com sometime later, But 99% of people with a 2.0L, 9.5-9.8:1 compression, and side mount intercooler are in the 220-260 whp range, with a turbo.</div>

I think it was DJ Galant who got a turbo setup, he only got like 40whp or something like that....id have to talk to him, but the SC at 5 psi is over 70whp. Big difference, and i think DJ Galant was using a 16G

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alister_McRae)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think it was DJ Galant who got a turbo setup, he only got like 40whp or something like that....id have to talk to him, but the SC at 5 psi is over 70whp. Big difference, and i think DJ Galant was using a 16G</div>
He did something wrong then. I have no doubt. 40 hp from a 16g? I'm getting approximately 80-90 hp out of a T25 under only 70 lbs boost. How much boost was he running? What kind of fuel system? Management? There's no way a turbocharger would produce THAT much less power than a supercharger. Also, there's almost no way a turbocharger would be producing that LITTLE hp period...40 hp on a 160 hp car is roughly equivalent to around 3-4 lbs of boost, with even a halfway decent intercooler. The 16g is NOT designed for 3-4 lbs of boost. I believe it maxes out somewhere along the lines of 25-27 psi?

[Alister_McRae]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScootinIntegra)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alister_McRae)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think it was DJ Galant who got a turbo setup, he only got like 40whp or something like that....id have to talk to him, but the SC at 5 psi is over 70whp. Big difference, and i think DJ Galant was using a 16G</div>
He did something wrong then. I have no doubt. 40 hp from a 16g? I'm getting approximately 80-90 hp out of a T25 under only 70 lbs boost. How much boost was he running? What kind of fuel system? Management? There's no way a turbocharger would produce THAT much less power than a supercharger. Also, there's almost no way a turbocharger would be producing that LITTLE hp period...40 hp on a 160 hp car is roughly equivalent to around 3-4 lbs of boost, with even a halfway decent intercooler. The 16g is NOT designed for 3-4 lbs of boost. I believe it maxes out somewhere along the lines of 25-27 psi?</div>

Thats what he said, although there was some things wrong with his setup, i think in one of his posts there was a leak of air somewhere in the setup and he was loosing pressure. The week he got the setup, i think he bent a rod. Im trying to find the original post, but the turbo really messed his engine up in the beginning.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alister_McRae)</div><div class='quotemain'>Thats what he said, although there was some things wrong with his setup, i think in one of his posts there was a leak of air somewhere in the setup and he was loosing pressure. The week he got the setup, i think he bent a rod. Im trying to find the original post, but the turbo really messed his engine up in the beginning.</div>
A turbo will not put anymore stress on the engine than a supercharger, at least not to the block, pistons, etc...if properly tuned. The only thing that would be affected is really the turbo manifold, and the turbo itself. If you buy quality pieces, you won't have this problem!

An air leak is a really good way to lose power, that would constitute only a 40 hp gain. If he was planning on running 7 psi or so boost, then my estimated 3-4 psi for that gain is about right, depending on how bad the leak is.

[stryker204]

i really dont kno y everyone seems to post a thread about 'turbo vs. supercharger' beacuse there are about 5 other threads about them....u say that ur not gunna spin the tires if ur turboed due to lag....i am here to say u are sadly mistaken....my friend travis has a sentra with a qr24 motor with a garret gt35/40 and he spins his tires almost the whole way down the track....lag is really not a problem if u match the turbo to the best of ur ablitys then u would not have a problem with lag....and anything and everything else anyone has posted in here has been simply stated in the other threads about 'turbo vs. supercharger'....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stryker204)</div><div class='quotemain'>i really dont kno y everyone seems to post a thread about 'turbo vs. supercharger' beacuse there are about 5 other threads about them....u say that ur not gunna spin the tires if ur turboed due to lag....i am here to say u are sadly mistaken....my friend travis has a sentra with a qr24 motor with a garret gt35/40 and he spins his tires almost the whole way down the track....lag is really not a problem if u match the turbo to the best of ur ablitys then u would not have a problem with lag....and anything and everything else anyone has posted in here has been simply stated in the other threads about 'turbo vs. supercharger'....</div>
It's a condensed thread that people will easily recognize. Now onto the useful stuff...

Are you sure that his spinning is due to the turbo? Watch his boost gauge. If it's over 0, then the turbo is partially contributing to this spinning. My point is, with a supercharger, it is MUCH easier to overpower the front wheels and spin them. In any properly tuned turbo car (especially those with a 2-stage boost controller), with any driver that is halfway decent, wheelspin should be able to be kept to a minimum while building power quickly, almost instantly, after launch.

[stryker204]

yea ur right...i must be mistaken...the turbo has nothing to do with the tires spinning...must be magical noises and smoke that i hear and see...or it just might be grunt power of a 4cyl befor the turbo finishes spooling...but yea ur right...nothing to do with the turbo at all....but the wheel spin is highly avoidable unless u just half throdle down the track or road...

[00GTZ00]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScootinIntegra)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>205.5WHP GS 5SPD at only 5-6psi
188.1WHP ES Galant Automatic at only 5psi</div>

Do you have any numbers for the turbo set ups under the same boost pressure?

I'm hoping for approx. 240whp under 7 psi boost, only 1 psi more than the stated numbers. I can get numbers from honda-tech.com sometime later, But 99% of people with a 2.0L, 9.5-9.8:1 compression, and side mount intercooler are in the 220-260 whp range, with a turbo.</div>

no I do not have any turbo numbers to match up with the SC numbers


Remember one thing too the 4cyl in our cars are only running a 9.0:1 compression ratio soooo if you are compairing cars that run higher CR those cars will run higher HP numbers per lb of boost

also those numbers that I stated were with NO intercooler attached to the system.

Oh boy....the compression ratio debate! lol...that opens up a whole new can of worms, and could more than fill 9 pages of a separate thread.

Higher hp numbers per pound of boost is like comparing hp/liter numbers. Great, my honda makes 100hp/liter. That Charger over there only makes 65 hp/liter. Now I think everyone can tell me who would win. 8) Lower compression will allow for higher boost pressures to be used, which translates into more airflow, which translates into more power. (this really isn't arguing for either turbo or SC, just stating a fact...this compression debate could go on forever though)

[Jet Black]

Whats better suited for an auto? S/C of T/C? Also how come their are no blow off valves on a S/C? I mean it builds up pressure just like a T/C. So where does that pressure go, when it shifts gears?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jet BLaK)</div><div class='quotemain'>Whats better suited for an auto? Â*S/C of T/C? Â*Also how come their are no blow off valves on a S/C? Â*I mean it builds up pressure just like a T/C. So where does that pressure go, when it shifts gears?</div>
it depends on how fast your auto car is. If you're running 9's, go with a supercharger. But, since that's most likely not the case, and you have an I-4, go with a turbo.

You just have to weigh the benefits vs. the disadvantages of both. Read my first post to see some of the advantages/disadvantages of both.

[00GTZ00]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jet BLaK)</div><div class='quotemain'>Whats better suited for an auto? Â*S/C of T/C? Â*Also how come their are no blow off valves on a S/C? Â*I mean it builds up pressure just like a T/C. So where does that pressure go, when it shifts gears?</div>

as far as which is better it's up to you

supercharger = easier install less parts to mess with

turbo = Harder install more parts to mess with

SC applications do not come with a BOV because they are driven off of the speed of the engine. The faster you go the more the SC spins, You start to slow down the SC slows with the engine. A turbo can not slow down like a sc can, they keep spinning durring the shifts, that is why they need to BOV. A SC will use boost controller sometimes. Like if you are running a pully that can push 12psi but you only want to run 9psi for everyday driving. But it does not need the BOV

[Gir]

I'm still confused as to the overall need for this thread to begin with. I have publically argued with the Ripp Mod guy about this in several other posts. I believe that all possible pros and cons to the two systems have been fully stated in those posts. Again, I've posted this before and I shall post it again.

http://www.to4r.com/techturbovssuper.html

Use it, live it, masterbate to it, do what you must, but the fact is that one article contains just about all anyone needs to know.

Basically the only reason I'm posting here is to ask Scootin, why the hell is this here? Yes you kinda answered it when stryker posted, but the fact is that you know you are throwing a lit match into a bucket of gasoline when you asked this kinda question. It is bound to only make sides in the arguement and not contribute to anyone being happy in the end. Why make everyone divided? Why not just let everyone do as they will on their own and enjoy their own decision for what it is? Instead this post is going to make already SC people think, well maybe a turbo would have done that for me? ...or make a turbo guy question his turbo. Let the people do as they will and don't worry about why. How about that?




edit -- stop deleteing or altering my posts. What are you doing?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gir)</div><div class='quotemain'>edit -- stop deleteing or altering my posts. Â*What are you doing?</div>
They are off-topic posts, so they are being deleted. Not by me, by someone else who offered to take care of them. PM me if you're having problems with this post.

I'm not trying to divide anybody, I'm simply trying to get the information out there. People that have superchargers are generally happy with their superchargers, and they chose it for a reason. Likewise for turbo'd cars. This is to help other people, who haven't decided yet, decide on what they want to buy. 00GTZ00 and I simply have different views on what should be turbo'd vs. what should be supercharged, and it's always best to hear both sides of the story. Please PM me (or a mod) if you have a problem. Thanks.

Remember, you can ask your turbo vs. supercharger questions in here too

[RedGalant2k1]

Scootin,

I was looking for a S/C setup for my car specifically for daily driving. I am at a loss for what the S/C setup i want is called? I think its called Centrifugal? I know there are two types of Supercharger systems but For the life of me i can't remember.

In any case if i run 6-8psi on my 2.4 4cyl what else would be good to have upgraded?

Scootin,

I was looking for a S/C setup for my car specifically for daily driving. I am at a loss for what the S/C setup i want is called? I think its called Centrifugal? I know there are two types of Supercharger systems but For the life of me i can't remember.

In any case if i run 6-8psi on my 2.4 4cyl what else would be good to have upgraded?

You have a centrifugal (a round turbo-looking supercharger) or a Eaton/Roots style supercharger. Both do the same thing, just pressurize the air a little differently.

For daily driving, honestly...I'd go with a supercharger. You'll get that nice boost of power at low RPM, where you will be driving most of the time. A turbo for daily driving is not a great idea, although it certainly won't hurt.

6-8 psi you should be fine stock, just make sure you get enough fuel in there to avoid knock.

[DJ Galant]

just to straight things up:

my very very first dyno after getting my setup put on was 140 whp, stock was 105 whp , but that was when i was lean and had improper injectors with bented and clogged intake pipe.

Then , finally after discovering the phenoma that i had impromper injectors and chaniging them to denso 460cc and making proper intake pipe (much bigger than before) i dynoed my galant at 4.5 psi at 181 whp and 165 ft/lbs with air to fuel ratio tuned at 12:1 at WOT.


Switching the boost with upgraded tail 35 mm wastgate, and getting 2 new turbonetics heavy duty clamps, boost was set to 9.5 psi (running of the spring) , the car dynoed at 222 whp and produced 194 ft.lbs of torque on the dynojet dyno with 12.5 air to fuel ratio set at the WOT.
4.5 psi was an okey setting - much more power than stock galant, but quarter mile was 16.1 @ 85 mph.
9.5 psi setting is really kicking ass, plenty of power 15.1 at 94 mph done quarter mile done twice at the track with 91 pump gas.
9.5 psi with 100 octane gas with no left headlight for better intake flow, and changed oil killed additional .3 second off the quarter mile time, and did an impressive for this elevation 14.8 at 98 mph.
Got the slips and dyno charts at my house.
Dyno charts u can see at the web also.


My 2 cents about turbo vs supercharger are:
I really didn't get a chance to compare SC galant to mine but i hope to see Matt's SC galant soon.


Overall, from my expariance i have learned:
few down sides of having turbo:
at at 9.5 psi u start ripping your AXLES apart, car has NO STABILITY (meaning the car is going like crazy and u don't have control on the road)BRAKES are no suffiect for that kind of power, your GAS MONEY goes like money when u put it into slot machine, freqent OIL CHANGEs are necessary, CLAMPS need to be replaced often, 91 OCTANE a must or better gas prefferd (100 ocatne = $3.96 a galon!!!!)
MAINTANTNACE is very coastly.

BUT OVERALL THERE IS MORE PROS THAN CONS:
-great power response (almost no lag when about 3k rpm)
- kicking ass power - never excpected by others out of galant for having their slow car reputation
-great acceleration
- lovely BOV sounds
- originality (1 8g 4g64 turbo galant on the west coast )
-never have to worry about ricers, v6 and v8 powered cars driving around.
- great freewAY accelaeratoin (is as the same time to get from 70 to 90 as it is from 30 to 50mph )
- turbo is always there for u, if u don't want u don't have to boost to have more efficient gas milage and don't stress your engine
-boost setting can be increased / decreased as needed
- more options and oppurtunities such as changing certain parts and products to have overall better setup, ex. u can try a different turbo, injectors, wastgates (which really make a difference in power) etc.