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Thread: V6 Custom Turbo Buildup

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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Black
    http://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2...ing#post2257537

    If you got any other stupid ass comments or questions, keep them to yourself.
    Hey ASSHOLE. Don't link me back to the thread, I read the whole thing. I said I'd love to see someone substantiate that he was seing 20psi of boost just because of a ribbed dump pipe. If someone can do so, no problem. I was saying his explanation sounds like BS. I didn't say YOU are full of shit, just that I'd love to see some proof. Maybe if the pics worked, we might see that he went from a 1" OD ribbed pipe to a larger solid pipe, etc. Who knows. So if you can pull your head out of your ass, feel free to apologize.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveVR4
    I said I'd love to see someone substantiate that he was seing 20psi of boost just because of a ribbed dump pipe.
    I'll try to explain this in the simplest terms possible.

    First off lets begin with a simple lesson in English by defining the word substantiate.
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>substantiate - sub‧stan‧ti‧ate -verb
    1. to establish by proof or competent evidence: to substantiate a charge.
    2. to give substantial existence to: to substantiate an idea through action.
    3. to affirm as having substance; give body to; strengthen: to substantiate a friendship.
    </div>

    The competent evidence (or more accurately, empirical evidence) in question was the act itself of swapping out the dumptube. By switiching to a non-ribbed tube of similiar dimensions, the problem was fixed in it's entirety. Simple deduction is enough to prove his assesment. This conclusion is made all the easier when you consider that nothing else was changed (ceteris paribus), so therefore the only remaining suspect is the ribs or pockets. While he may not have explicity made the claim that the dimensions remained the same, I'm assuming that he's not a total dumbass, and therefore can make such a connection between using a different ID piping and fixing the boost problems (which he would have pointed out). Furthermore just exactly how is he supposed to fit on a larger dumptube with the existing wastegate? Do you even know what an external wastegate looks like? The ID of the outlet port cannot be changed. Therefore you cannot simply use a significantly larger dumptube coming from the flange. Of course it is possible that he went out and bought a reducer pipe for the dumptube. But I don't think he smokes crack, so I highly doubt he did that.

    Coming back to the point, the ID of the tube can be assumed to be equal to whatever the ID of the wastegate flange was. The wastegate (and in turn, the flange) was choosen based on that paticular application. So if he was using the dump tube with the ID of the wastegate flange, he shouldn't have had any problems. And certainly not a boost spike to more than twice his set pressure level. But instead what he was using was a dumptube that had numerous pockets in it. Pockets can quite easily cause a substantial increase in pressure (much more so when they are located in such a critical point along the system where maximum pressure is achieved...in the bends). They cause a considerable disturbance in the flow characteristics of the gasses, and in turn slow them down (slow exit velocity is also synonymous with increased pressure). On a device whose sole responicibility is to control boost pressure through evacuation of the excess gasses, any back pressure within the evacuation device (...the dump tube) will translate directly into higher pressure. This problem becomes increasingly compounded with increased pressure. That is by far the simplest explanation available.

    Oh, and there is the whole empirical evidence thing that I went over...

    Understand?


  3. #143

  4. #144
    You are here entirely tooo much!! peanotation's Avatar
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    i swear if you were a chick....
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  5. #145
    Thanks for defining substantiate. So interesting, considering I used it properly already.

    Obviously I was referring to some proof outside of his post. Don't believe everything that you read on the intarweb. He could have inadvertantly done something to address the real problem in the process or replacing the dump tube. However, your explanation of it was what I was looking for.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Black
    I'll try to explain this in the simplest terms possible.

    First off lets begin with a simple lesson in English by defining the word substantiate.
    The competent evidence (or more accurately, empirical evidence) in question was the act itself of swapping out the dumptube. By switiching to a non-ribbed tube of similiar dimensions, the problem was fixed in it's entirety. Simple deduction is enough to prove his assesment. This conclusion is made all the easier when you consider that nothing else was changed (ceteris paribus), so therefore the only remaining suspect is the ribs or pockets. While he may not have explicity made the claim that the dimensions remained the same, I'm assuming that he's not a total dumbass, and therefore can make such a connection between using a different ID piping and fixing the boost problems (which he would have pointed out). Furthermore just exactly how is he supposed to fit on a larger dumptube with the existing wastegate? Do you even know what an external wastegate looks like? The ID of the outlet port cannot be changed. Therefore you cannot simply use a significantly larger dumptube coming from the flange. Of course it is possible that he went out and bought a reducer pipe for the dumptube. But I don't think he smokes crack, so I highly doubt he did that.

    Coming back to the point, the ID of the tube can be assumed to be equal to whatever the ID of the wastegate flange was. The wastegate (and in turn, the flange) was choosen based on that paticular application. So if he was using the dump tube with the ID of the wastegate flange, he shouldn't have had any problems. And certainly not a boost spike to more than twice his set pressure level. But instead what he was using was a dumptube that had numerous pockets in it. Pockets can quite easily cause a substantial increase in pressure (much more so when they are located in such a critical point along the system where maximum pressure is achieved...in the bends). They cause a considerable disturbance in the flow characteristics of the gasses, and in turn slow them down (slow exit velocity is also synonymous with increased pressure). On a device whose sole responicibility is to control boost pressure through evacuation of the excess gasses, any back pressure within the evacuation device (...the dump tube) will translate directly into higher pressure. This problem becomes increasingly compounded with increased pressure. That is by far the simplest explanation available.

    Oh, and there is the whole empirical evidence thing that I went over...

    Understand?

    I believe it all! :laughing: :laughing:

    And still keeping an eye on this interesting thread. :-D
    8G 4 life!

    Mods: CAI,Grounding wires, CCorners, Shaved, 3G STB. AGX/Teins, Addco bar, OZ F1 wheels And well maintained : )

  7. #147
    You are here entirely tooo much!! peanotation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveVR4
    Don't believe everything that you read on the intarweb. He could have inadvertantly done something to address the real problem in the process or replacing the dump tube.

    then what the hell is the point of reading anything on this site, or anything, anywhere for that matter
    http://socallifestyle.com/

    1994 Galant GS 5spd

  8. #148
    Take everything with a grain of salt. You believe every bit of info that is posted on message boards? :shock: I've got a bridge to sell you. ;) I'm saying, use common sense and don't be afraid to question what you read. You'll either find out that it was wrong, or you'll learn something. Win/win.

    You'll notice that I didn't continue to argue for the sake of arguing, like a troll. I legitimately was questioning the claim, and if someone can back it up, then hopefully a few people including myself will benefit from the knowledge.

  9. #149
    Experienced TGC Member DryBear's Avatar
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    LIES!! Everything on the Intarw3b is TRUE!!11!one1! Father Al Gore said so!!

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by DryBear
    LIES!! Everything on the Intarw3b is TRUE!!11!one1! Father Al Gore said so!!
    Point taken...I guess this is a good time to come out with the truth.

    I don't have a turbo kit. This whole thread is a total fabrication by me. In fact Matt doesn't even really exist either. He's just an alternate user account that I made.

    Yep the truth sure feels good.

    Oh and one last thing. The guy with the 350z and boost problems...ya he made all that up as well. He figured it would really funny to make some totally bs story about how he had massive boost problems and then blame it on the "ribbed tubing". How clever was that?!?! I bet he's still laughing about that.

    Am I making this up? Who knows? :shock:

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  11. #151
    Experienced TGC Member DryBear's Avatar
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    I knew it!! The red pill was just a placebo!

    Seriously though, have you any updates, or are you in school still?

  12. #152
    You are here entirely tooo much!! seth98esT's Avatar
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    Haha! I do find it hard to believe that the ribs on the dump would cause an excessive boost creap. I do see how it would cause a small boost creap. I dont really see how it would prevent things from boosting. Maybe I need to click the linkerage :P
    7g for life!

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by DryBear
    I knew it!! The red pill was just a placebo!

    Seriously though, have you any updates, or are you in school still?
    Still in school, minus the car. Though that hasn't stopped me from buying parts. 16 wideband oxygen sensors for &#036;50? Sure why not!

    Quote Originally Posted by seth98esT
    Haha! I do find it hard to believe that the ribs on the dump would cause an excessive boost creap. I do see how it would cause a small boost creap. I dont really see how it would prevent things from boosting. Maybe I need to click the linkerage :P
    From his description I'm assuming he went into limp mode. The ECU probably triggered this based off his airflow and AFR. Granted the ECU is supposed to ignore AFR during open loop, the 350z (and probably the whole VQ family) have intresting electronics. For one they come stock with wideband oxygen sensors. I would wager that it also has certain safe guards for similiar situations in which the airflow exceeds the available fuel.

    More thoughts about the tubing...

    The wastegate is a device that is actuated by converting pressure into mechanical work. Its built off the assumption that there won't be any significant restrictions past the outlet. Once the valve opens up the gasses are supposed to evacuated by way of "path of least resistance". Either the turbocharger or the dump tube. In this case the restriction caused by ribbed tubing was significant enough that it created a higher pressure within the tube itself, than that of the turbine inlet. Factor in a large turbine housing which doesn't create much backpressure and you got a path of least resistance through the housing instead of the tube.

    Also since you guys can't see the pictures, imagine using your oil drain pipe for the downpipe (or the EGR pipe for the V6 guys). That was basicly what he was using.


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