3.8 Swap Thread

**skyy406** · 04-23-2010, 05:39 PM

Hi everyone,

I hope this is in the right place.

Yesterday I picked up a 3.8 from a 2004 Galant with 61k. I am planning on swapping it into my 1998 Avenger. I have already swapped in the 3.0 from an eclipse- but the timing belt shredded last week and well that's the end of that motor. I'm also going to swap in a 5 or 6 speed manual- Most likely a 5 speed from a early 90's daytona turbo as it has the same dimensions as my current a604 automatic and uses the same axles with the exception of a half/shaft.

I have already contacted Megasquirt as I will use their ECU in parallel with my stock ECU (A/C Gauges, Alternator, Fans- ect)- and convert to a Ford EDIS for ignition and timing.

For the engine guru's out there I would really appreciate some information. I haven't spent a lot of time looking over the engine, but is it a MIVEC? The reason I ask this is that the Megasquirt can control the MIVEC solenoids.

What type of ignition system does the Galant run- where is the crank
angle sensor (CAS) or distributor trigger wheel and what type is it
(Optical/LED Sensor? Hall Sensor? VR Sensor?)
I am pretty sure its an Optical/LED but I need to make sure

How many teeth/windows/slots and what orientation does the CAS, crank
trigger, and/or distributor wheel have? (any missing? all evenly spaced?)

Is the IAC an on/off, pulse width
modulated, thermal, or stepper type?

I really appreciate any help you guys can give me. I really love the 6g motors and you guys have some great cars on here.

Thanks,

Pete

**bronxbombr** · 04-23-2010, 05:53 PM

nice whip.

**Boosted** · 04-23-2010, 06:01 PM

Why don't you use the 4G transmission from the Eclipse as it bolts up to the 3.8 motor?

**skyy406** · 04-23-2010, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Boosted

Why don't you use the 4G transmission from the Eclipse as it bolts up to the 3.8 motor?

The 4g transmission is a lot larger than the Daytona transmission- I really would rather not having to modify the frame. The Daytona transmission also bolts to the 3.8L. In fact a lot of transmissions bolt to the 6g motors. Several Hyundai 5-6speed transmissions too.

**infliction** · 04-23-2010, 10:06 PM

i think thats because mitsu made the hyundai transmissions ;)

umm.. the only real help im going to be is to let you know there werent any mivec 3.8 engines in 04. the galant only got mivec for the ralliart models in 07 and 09
so that'll cut down on headaches. .. also cut down on fun when driving.

**2002BlackDragon** · 04-23-2010, 10:17 PM

Has anyone ever put a 2007 3.8 Mivec into an 8G? Would it even be possible? That would be sexy as shit. And backed by a 5 speed too. hawtness!

**6g72lover** · 04-23-2010, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by 2002BlackDragon

Has anyone ever put a 2007 3.8 Mivec into an 8G? Would it even be possible? That would be sexy as shit. And backed by a 5 speed too. hawtness!

in this forum have one galant what have one 3.8l 5 speed

**2002BlackDragon** · 04-24-2010, 12:28 AM

Okay, i have no idea what the hell your saying. The translation is getting messed up somewhere.

**stvn_mj** · 04-24-2010, 12:39 AM

Spd_Frk is the one that is going to be running a 3.8 in his galant.

**6g72lover** · 04-24-2010, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by 2002blackdragon

okay, i have no idea what the hell your saying. The translation is getting messed up somewhere.

no use traslator

**2002BlackDragon** · 04-24-2010, 12:05 PM

Really? I didnt know that Spd_Frk was using the 3.8 Mivec from a Ralliart. I wonder if he is running a 4g or 3g manual?

**stvn_mj** · 04-24-2010, 02:43 PM

I think he is using the non mivec and he will use the 3g tranny. Check his build thread for more info

**2002BlackDragon** · 04-24-2010, 04:48 PM

cool. Already ahve. I never realized that was the engine he was using. Good stuff.

**SPD_FRK** · 04-24-2010, 08:46 PM

I am running the Non-MIVEC 6g75 for a few reasons. MIVEC is nothing "special" other than the increased valve lift once MIVEC is kicked in. There is no advantage of changing when the MIVEC kicks in over what the factory has set it too.

The problem with the MIVEC engine is there are no aftermarket cams available for them yet, RPW was looking to produce them but last I heard they dropped that project for lack of demand. With the Non-MIVEC engine you can run a set of RPW cams for the 6g72 or 6g74 (both will fit right in), this also gives you an advantage for more lift and a better performing cam over what MIVEC could offer.

Engine management can be done with a piggyback unit such as an EManage or the MegaSquirt system. Though there is another alternative such as running a 2001+ Eclipse or Stratus ECU to do full engine management and tuning via ECUFlash.

The ignition system on the 6g75 (MIVEC or Non-MIVEC) is a COP (coil on plug) setup. The only way to control this ignition system to my knowledge currently is to run a full standalone engine management such as AEM. You can setup and run the 6g72 or 6g74 distributor on these engines as it will fit directly into the rear head just the same as the 6g72/74. You will need the 6g74 coolant crossover pipe in order to accomodate for the distributor location. You also need to replace the 6g75 reluctor wheel on the crankshaft with the corresponding 6g72/74 reluctor wheel depending on which distributor you use.

The IAC and stuff, don't even worry about that. The Throttle body on the 6g75 engines is a DBW (Drive By Wire) setup and you will want to swap out for the 6g72/74 TB and run the IAC and TPS from the 6g72/74.

The transmission from the 4th Gen Eclipse is a possibility to use, only if you really think a 6th gear will be "cool." The problem with the 6spd is the same as what the Evo guys have with them, they break. Get a 5spd from the Stratus or 2000-2005 Eclipse as they are a direct bolt up and will withstand the abuse. The internals of the Eclipse (possibly even the stratus) are practically identical to that of the 5spd Evo transmission. Only difference is the bell housing on the Evo due to the AWD portion of the drivetrain.

A lot of us who have built on the 6g72/74/75 engine platforms are not aware that any other transmissions bolt up to these blocks, so if you say that others do please shed some light on this...many out there would like to know.

**2002BlackDragon** · 04-24-2010, 09:24 PM

So what exactly is the benifit of going with the 75 over the 74?

**WhiteGalant** · 04-24-2010, 10:09 PM

3.8l vs. 3.5l

**SPD_FRK** · 04-24-2010, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by 2002BlackDragon

So what exactly is the benifit of going with the 75 over the 74?

It is 3.8 vs a 3.5, basically a bigger bore over the 6g74 with the same stroke. The biggest benefit of the 6g75 is the heads. The 6g75 heads have larger valves, and CC chambers, with flow numbers very comparable to the V8 LS6 heads (read exceptional for a V6 platform).

The 6g74 mated to the A/T would put down about 160-165 to the wheels, and the tq curve on the 6g74 peaks around 4000-4500RPMs. With the better flowing 6g75 heads the torque curve would be a bit better in the top end as well instead of hitting the "restriction" from limited flow charactoristics such as the 72/74s.

With the added displacement, I would imagine seeing stock numbers with the A/T around 190, with the 5-spd swap it is likely into the 200-210 area without a tune.

**skyy406** · 04-25-2010, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by SPD_FRK

A lot of us who have built on the 6g72/74/75 engine platforms are not aware that any other transmissions bolt up to these blocks, so if you say that others do please shed some light on this...many out there would like to know.

The engine bay of the Avenger and Sebring (1995-2000) is smaller than a Stratus and Eclipse. Therefore a stratus or Eclipse 5 speed requires modifying the frame.

I belong to www.aseclub.net. Really great A/S club. Anyway, we had a group of members get together and go after V6- 5pseed. They succeeded. They found that the Dodge Daytona Turbo A543 manual transmission is physically the same size as the a604 transmission. Both of the axles are direct swap in, with the exception of a 1/2 shaft.

So that is another option for you guys too!

That is the transmission that I am going to run.

I have a question. What type of sensor is the crank position sensor? VR, Hall, Optical/LED?

**SPD_FRK** · 04-25-2010, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by skyy406

The engine bay of the Avenger and Sebring (1995-2000) is smaller than a Stratus and Eclipse. Therefore a stratus or Eclipse 5 speed requires modifying the frame.

I belong to www.aseclub.net. Really great A/S club. Anyway, we had a group of members get together and go after V6- 5pseed. They succeeded. They found that the Dodge Daytona Turbo A543 manual transmission is physically the same size as the a604 transmission. Both of the axles are direct swap in, with the exception of a 1/2 shaft.

So that is another option for you guys too!

That is the transmission that I am going to run.

I have a question. What type of sensor is the crank position sensor? VR, Hall, Optical/LED?

Ok, nvm about the 3rd Gen 5spd then. With that said, has anybody found the limit on the Daytona Transmissions? I can't really give any more advice specifically on the transmission unfortunately.

That option is out of the question for us, same reason as the 3rd Gen 5spd is out for you (frame modification).

Before you worry about the crank sensor, what ignition setup are you going to run? As noted above the only way to run the COP setup currently is with a full standalone, nothing else will operate the ignition system.

**skyy406** · 04-26-2010, 11:17 PM

I am going to run a Ford EDIS 6 Ignition system. It will work seamlessly with my new Megasquirt II

The Daytona transmission has been found to handle 300whp completely stock.

Picked up today:

And I just ordered this!!!!

Aluminum bung for IAT Sensor

12 Foot Megasquirt Wiring Harness

Pre- Assembled Stimulator Board

MegaSquirt-II Programmable EFI System PCB3.57

DB9 6' Male/Female Straight thru cable for tuning and testing my MegaSquirt ECU

GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Pigtail

Innovate Standalone Gauge Kit w LC-1 & blue DB Digital Gauge