8g AWD..Half way done.

[Galantman03]

You guys keep this thread alive although Cali hasnt posted since July. just wondering

well all of it pertains to the awd swap, i hope cali doesn't mind, if he does well we can start another thread, but why do that, when pretty much all this info in here is for the swap anyhow.

what about the drive shaft hangers? i didn't see them or here anything about them in bostons thread. what is the purpose of them, when i see 4wd trucks and rwd cars with out them.

[Cali]

Damn Cali...I just checked this thread....you indeed are a mad man! LOL. Its gonna be the shit when its done. Hopefully I can make MOD '11 so I can run some ideas I have for mine by you! I'll hire you for a job! LOL

i MIGHT have it done by then but doubtful. definitely try to come by, we'll talk!

well all of it pertains to the awd swap, i hope cali doesn't mind, if he does well we can start another thread, but why do that, when pretty much all this info in here is for the swap anyhow.

what about the drive shaft hangers? i didn't see them or here anything about them in bostons thread. what is the purpose of them, when i see 4wd trucks and rwd cars with out them.

there's a couple options from what i've seen, you can use the evo hangers or the rear one from a gsx. (or mix/match; driveshafts too or custom) i still haven't decided which route to take but i have both sets already.

i have all the parts pretty much including a 4g63 and transmission/tc. already working on the wiring too. more than anything i just need to finish the starion first.

[Stewi]

i MIGHT have it done by then but doubtful. definitely try to come by, we'll talk!



there's a couple options from what i've seen, you can use the evo hangers or the rear one from a gsx. (or mix/match; driveshafts too or custom) i still haven't decided which route to take but i have both sets already.

i have all the parts pretty much including a 4g63 and transmission/tc. already working on the wiring too. more than anything i just need to finish the starion first.

The 2g rear hanger is the easiest due to its shape and using the rear section of the 2g driveshaft works, then the front section from the hanger to the transfer case will be custom. Drive Shaft Shop made boston hatcher an aluminum front shaft and an adaptor connect it to the rear shaft for around $800. Any reputable shop that makes driveshafts could do the same and make it from steel substantially less.

[eclipsh]

If you go steel you need to go with a 3" or larger diameter front section on a 2-piece drive shaft. Go on, ask me how I know ;) Given the larger diameters needed I determined I was better off using a 3 piece.

[Galantman03]

The 2g rear hanger is the easiest due to its shape and using the rear section of the 2g driveshaft works, then the front section from the hanger to the transfer case will be custom. Drive Shaft Shop made boston hatcher an aluminum front shaft and an adaptor connect it to the rear shaft for around $800. Any reputable shop that makes driveshafts could do the same and make it from steel substantially less.

so how many hangers are needed? can you use all 2g hangers? or do you have to use like a combination of evo hangers for the forward part of the vehicle and 2g for the aft part of the vehicle?

[Stewi]

If you go steel you need to go with a 3" or larger diameter front section on a 2-piece drive shaft. Go on, ask me how I know ;) Given the larger diameters needed I determined I was better off using a 3 piece.

Im not sure why a 3" shaft would be a problem, the shaft Bostonhatcher is using is 3" maybe even 3.5" and its a total of two pieces, the aluminum shaft is the front section and the stock 2g shaft is the rear section.

so how many hangers are needed? can you use all 2g hangers? or do you have to use like a combination of evo hangers for the forward part of the vehicle and 2g for the aft part of the vehicle?

You really only need one hanger and like I said the 2g ones are preferable because are easier to weld into out tunnel since they fit into the 2g similar where as the EVO hangers are staggered off the the sides, they attach a little differently. If your plan is to run a two piece drive shaft you need one hanger, 3 piece drive shaft requires 2 hangers, not sure why anyone would want to run a 3 piece shaft though, in the end its just more work.

[eclipsh]

I went with a 3 piece because the 2.5" diameter 2 piece I had failed at 85 mph, destroyed my transfer case and beat the shit out of my exhaust and underbody. I do not know how much space there is under an 8g but on the 7g the tunnel is too narrow for a 3" shaft and a 3" exhaust. Just running the 2.5" shaft I had serious issues with fitment. I'd have to see the 8g belly to say for sure if the same issues will apply.

[Galantman03]

You really only need one hanger and like I said the 2g ones are preferable because are easier to weld into out tunnel since they fit into the 2g similar where as the EVO hangers are staggered off the the sides, they attach a little differently. If your plan is to run a two piece drive shaft you need one hanger, 3 piece drive shaft requires 2 hangers, not sure why anyone would want to run a 3 piece shaft though, in the end its just more work.

do you really need the driveshaft hanger? i guess i don't understand exactly what it does lol or why its needed... i look at my dads 4wd... no driveshaft hangers and all... i just need this cleared up for me lol

[Stewi]

do you really need the driveshaft hanger? i guess i don't understand exactly what it does lol or why its needed... i look at my dads 4wd... no driveshaft hangers and all... i just need this cleared up for me lol

Yes. Its all about driveshaft angle, vibration and weight. First off, from where the EVO t-case is aligned versus the rear differential alignment, its not a perfectly straight line, thats the first reason you cant use a one piece shaft. The hanger holds the section of shaft in place, typically just before or after a joint. So since you need to use a two piece shaft, you need a hanger. Also, having the hanger bearing helps to reduce vibration as the shaft spins, it causes reduced wear in the U-joints and less lateral "side loading" if you will, on the differential.

[Galantman03]

I guess I figured the u joints in the driveshaft would u-joint? the right way, so you wouldn't need the hangers.. guess not lol. thanks for clearing it up

[eclipsh]

galantman03, Stewi covered some basics but there is a lot more to it. The drive system in AWD Mitsu cars is very different from a 4wd truck. In a truck the shafts are typically extending from the center of the wheel base, where the transfer case is, out to the axles. That means they are fairly short. They are also bolted in place at both ends.

The Mitsu cars have one long shaft running from almost the front wheels to the rear. Mitsu engineered it to be a three piece unit with four joints. Only the rear u-joint actually has a section bolted into place. The front uses a slip joint where it slides freely in and out of the transfer case. They made it that way because the transverse motor layout rocks forward and backward a lot and the transaxle and transfer case rock with it. That means it slides forward and backward along the length of the drive shaft so the joints have to be able to handle that.

Since the drive shaft is only attached rigidly at one end and uses four joints, it can't stay up without carrier bearings to keep it there. You can see the bearings in my photo below. They're the big hoops the shaft runs through (two of them).



Without these the front yoke going into the transfer case would just slip out.

After my drive shaft snapped I did a lot of research. Turns our there were actually several reasons for the three piece shaft. Due to the gear ratios and wheel sizes on the AWD Mitsu cars the drive shaft spins very fast. At 70 mph it is spinning around 3400 RPMs. At 130 it is spinning at around 6300. That isn't unusual if the thing spinning is small but when you start dealing with a shaft that is five or six feet long it causes problems. Drive shafts do some pretty crazy stuff under load including flexing like a sine wave (s-curve). Over a short distance it doesn't amount to much but over longer distances that sine wave leads to things breaking (like it did with mine). To combat that designers will use wider diameter pipes (it is actually the ratio of diameter to length that really matters). Delivery trucks and the like will use 4-5" diameter drive shafts that are very long. They also use very large tires so the shaft isn't spinning as fast. For Mitsu's a 2.5" diameter two piece shaft is too small. Even if the walls are made thicker it simply cannot handle the RPM's and the torque a modified car will put out. A 3" diameter pipe barely makes it. For mine I would really have needed a 3.5" diameter to play it safe. Pipe that diameter is more expensive, heavier, and puts that weight further out from the center of rotation which saps power. Carbon fiber helps a lot but it is pricey and would almost certainly have to be custom made for an AWD swapped Galant which makes it even worse.

There are drive shaft calculator spread sheets available on the web which include gear ratios, tire diameters, shaft widths, lengths and wall thicknesses and they'll tell you if your shaft stands a snow ball's chance in hell of staying in one piece. That was something I didn't do the first time and I paid the price for it.

To be fair, I did also have an issue with rubbing which weakened the pipe. Looking at the calculations though it would only have been a matter of time before it happened regardless. Without a large diameter for the two piece shaft it simply isn't rigid enough to handle any real power or speed.

[Stewi]

Nice work. I really wasnt gonna get that far into it, but im glad you did.

[Galant306m]

How hard was it to bolt in the rear end? Voodoo is doing the swap in his 3gay and has a evo 8 shell just wondering how hard it is cause he was going to go with a 2g rear end setup but i thought the evo rear would bolt it.

[Stewi]

How hard was it to bolt in the rear end? Voodoo is doing the swap in his 3gay and has a evo 8 shell just wondering how hard it is cause he was going to go with a 2g rear end setup but i thought the evo rear would bolt it.

The EVO rear subframe itself is totally different and doesnt fit. The EVO rear diff will physically bolt into place on a 2g subframe by just swapping over the rear diff cover from a 2g onto the EVO diff housing, since the 2g cover has the 2 bolt holes for mounting it and the EVO one does not.

[Galant306m]

Hmmmm well if he uses the 2g rear subfram I may attempt to make the evo one fit in the 7g..... yes some work will need to be done but no it won't be impossible. Anything can ft in any car with enough work I may put my hands on it and see what I can come up with

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

[Stewi]

If your doing all that just go custom tubular with a fuel cell, alot less trouble and saves weight.

[Galant306m]

at any point it would just be way easier to just but a 2g subframe and not worry about the evo one.

[Cali]

Finally finished the entire swap. See first post for new pics/video.

[lucap100is]

awesome!

[Galantman03]

*UPDATED 6/24/12*

So a few years later i finally finished the 4g63t awd swap. I won't bore you with too much info as you can find a lot of help/pics from both stewi's and goosey's build but i'll add a few pointers:

For the driveshaft you dont have to get an adapter from DSS to connect to the DSM 6 bolt rear shaft section; you can use the flange from an EVO. (same spline count; fits perfectly and much much cheaper)
Part number is MR145248. ($48)



For the front section of the drive shaft, you can use a slip yoke from a starion. it's the same spline count but the O.D. is smaller; the solution is to have a sleeve machined and pressed on. IMO this is a much more effective solution as the u joint is OEM size and clears the tunnel without having to hack it up. There is also speculation from DSM community that the DSS slip yoke is cut from a new oem yoke and welded onto a larger u joint which can be very dangerous if it breaks. (see link below).







Drive shaft length from seal to flange (assuming using the evo flange) is 56" ; I dont see any reason it should change from car to car.

For the boot on the steering column, use an evo boot to close up the gap that results from extending it; part # MR449901 ($13)



Video of first startup:
http://youtu.be/8VeZLe0n-AI

Dang it lol you beat me! NICE WORK!

so my question is, did you order the drive shaft from dss, and then take their slip yoke off, and install the starions? also, you wouldnt happen to have the part number for the starions slip yoke would you?
That evo flange is the one that comes with the evo rear diff correct?