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  1. #1

    GM Supercharger??

    Hopefully this isnt a stupid question...
    I was wondering if it possible to get a supercharger of a GM car such as a grand prix, thunderbird, regal, etc and put it on my galant?

    If its possible then ill more than likely go that route than turbo'ing
    Gotta 2003 ES V6 BTW..

    Any help would be appreciated!

  2. #2
    Senior TGC Member DTP's Avatar
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    I think there is one for the 6g72. Look into it over on c3g. They have some info there.


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    -Andrew

  3. #3
    Senior TGC Member Skyforger's Avatar
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    >GM V6 expert

    You're in luck, I'm here to save you the stress of finding out:

    NO.

    The motor you're thinking of, is more than likely the durable 3800 series II supercharged motor, or the L67 engine. These blowers are designed to fit on a 90*V6 OHV (pushrod) engine, I'm not a 100% of the 6G72's degree of the V, but I highly doubt those massive M90 blowers will work, the intake ports alone don't even line up.

    Don't get me wrong, with enough fab work, engineering, tuning, you could get it to work, but it'll be for such little gain, the hood clearance is compromised...etc etc.

    You're better off with a turbo setup.

    -Chris-

    2003 Mitsubishi Galant ES 2.4L SOHC: "Octavia"
    2005 Honda Accord EX-L Coupe 2.4L DOHC

    Quote Originally Posted by XxGiRLaNT06xX View Post
    From the looks of the girl, her face isnt that great.. nothing a paper bag couldnt fix... amirite?

  4. #4
    Experienced TGC Member XxGiRLaNT06xX's Avatar
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    Well there ya go lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by galantlvr34 View Post
    The thread got big fast because Ally is the bomb lol.

  5. #5
    Senior TGC Member DTP's Avatar
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    I thought he meant supercharger in general, and used those as examples.


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  6. #6
    Senior TGC Member DTP's Avatar
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    This:
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFranchise View Post
    RIPP SDS FAQ
    (Brought to you buy an actual SDS owner and installer :) )

    I wanted to share some common things about the RIPP system that are brought up and scattered around the boards. Some info is good, some bad, some made up. I hope newbies benefit and get q/a from this as well. If the moderators are nice they might sticky this.

    Overview:
    RIPP is a private comany in NYC. I know the owner and most of the employees very well so I can vouch for their credibility. They are not crooks nor shady businessmen. They are a small company in terms of size but their product easily surpasses in terms of quality and durability that big names like Greddy and HKS. RIPP designs an awsome fabricated supercharger system for several platforms now. The back their product with warranty which i can vouch for as they have replaced 2 parts for me free of charge. I get and have gotten descent technical support from them, especially as of late. In earlier years than didnt have the manpower to get back to me ASAP but todays tech support def seems top notch.


    Pre-requisites/common mistakes and tips for the SDS kits (Stage 1/2)

    Headers:
    You need headers. End of story. I would not recommend running stock manifolds on this car with boost for 5 minutes. They simply limit and detune you. They do not flow all that well especially compared to headers. They also cause your EGTS to be hotter. I have been there and done that already so dont attempt it unless you are bored. When I was stage 1, i had a night and day difference with running stock manifold and a set of crappy AMSS headers (old shorty style). Even those POS AMSS outperformed the stocker manifolds!
    Buy headers in short. I have the RIPP stainless long tubers and they and pretty damn nice. I have seen success with Hytech and RPW as well but cant comment on their fitment.

    Oxygen Sensors:
    Install ALL 4 O2s in your car. You will have troubles hands down with the SDS if you dont. Sims are a no-no and hanging them out in the air is a bigger no-no. Get them installed anyway you have to. Secondly, a HUGE issue with O2 sensors and CEL / SES light popping is from improper and/or shorted out O2 sensors. Be very careful how and where you route the o2 lines and use MANY MANY zip ties. Many extended O2 wires also end up getting melted on the exhaust due to poor wire running and securing. Its not rocket science but it does require patience and time.

    Catback:
    With RIPP headers, most any factory 2000+ aftermarket catback will bolt up. a 1995-99 2G Eclipse GST FWD ONLY 3" catback will also fit our cars with minor modification. RRE sells a 3" Apexi modified for the 3G.

    INSTALL TIPS

    Pre Setup
    Sometimes a kit goes out with missing parts, it happens. Like any kit or product, ensure you got your parts before you start.

    Multi-task installs
    Many installs run into trouble from other item installation errors. i.e., someone is installing headers + sds + new manifold + clutch + timing belt all at the same time and messes up one of the above and blames it on the SDS install. While experienced mechanics and race builders are able to multi task, i highly recommend that you do NOT if you are the weekend builder installing the SDS. The SDS is generally a bolt on. The install is not very complex and next to no customization is needed. However a 7 hr install posted on RIPPs site is not feasible by the weekend mechanic nor the professional tuner shop. That may be what RIPP can do it in but it should not be your goal. I recommend 2-3 days just for the SDS to ensure 100% time and quality. Get you header and clutch upgrades done before you install the SDS. It makes life much easier! If you fret at removing the intake plenum multiple times, this installation is NOT for you.

    Plenum removal
    - Get a 3/8 stubby ratchet. Getting to the plenum brace bolts is easiest with a stubby and leaning behind the car from the battery tray.
    - Dont seperate the TB from the plenum, rather disconnect the throttle cable and the coolant lines. Replace the coolant line clamps (those bitching lil crimp clamps with smaller hose style clamps with screws. This will speed up future removals. I recommend you get a roll of painters tape, 1". Cover the lower intake manifold with painters tape. should take 2 strips. Why? I have seen way too many motors on this board blown up from a 1 cent washer falling into the lower intake manifold. I have seen professional shops do this as well. Very sad and easy to prevent. The lock washers on the studs are usually the culprit as people miss them in the removal. tape = $1, motor = $1000

    Frame modication for washer fluid bottle
    Dont do it. I dont recommend it. Rather, modify the washer bottle neck. Measure the neccessary plastic needed to shorten and cut a 45 angle in the middle of the neck. Take a heat gun and/or solder iron to fuse and mold the plastic and seal it. Finally take some silicone and seal the job. When done properly, the lid for the washer bottle will be below the pulley of the SDS and out of the way. It should open about 2/3 up. You can fill the washer fluid via funnel. Small price to pay for more power ;)/ If interested I could provide modified wash bottles for a nominal fee.

    Black Box Installation
    Solder your connections. No exception. Leave some reflief slack in the wires and tape them up with 3M Brand only electrical tape. Cheap tape is cheap and doesnt last long. Many installs result from a jacked up electrical install on this step.

    Vac guage and leaks
    You should be seeing -20 "Hg on your boost/vac guage. If you are seeing something like 0, -10 or -15 you have a vac leak. It will cause you stutter and fuel problems. To find it buy a can of starter fluid and spray in key location of suspected leak location (vac T and connections, bypass valve, mas, plenum gasket, etc) and listen for an audible change in engine pitch/rpm. This will indicate a leak into the system.

    In-tank Fuel Pump installs
    Simply, order a new grommet for the fuel pump and use it for the install. Seems most are crushed and split when they are re-used. Your fuel press guage should show you holding 15-20psi for a couple mins after shutdown A leaking grommet will result in poor fuel pressure under boost.

    SDS Oil and lines
    I run Castrol 10w30 full synthetic. It is recommended by Vortech. When running you oil lines, be cautios on how you route them and what the rub on. Again zip tie them every foot or so and place foam/rubber shielding on parts that may appear to rub over time. Preventative steps and time are well spent. In the oil feed connection of the Vortech blower is a small filter nozzle. It mists oil into the blower and needs cleaned as it traps dirt.

    PCV Setup
    It has come to my attention from troubleshooting that the PCV setup for the 3G is incorrect once you blow through the MAF. The rear breather setups on most SDS cars are pretty much pulling in ambient air. This is a source of unmetered air and I believe has and will cause tuning issues with the car, particuarly when its at part throttle. I recently have tried a new setup and am VERY pleased with my results. I am using Krankvents to accomplish this setup. www.et-performance.com. The diagram below shows the modified setup. My vac readings before were always about -18. I also suffered from the dreaded lean part throttle tuning nightmare. After this mod my vacuum now reads -20 to -21 and the part throttle lean is vanished.

    The KEY to this mod is installation. IF YOU INSTALL THIS BACKWARDS YOU WILL BLOW UP YOUR MOTOR AND/OR CATCH YOUR CAR ON FIRE This mod is very simple to do and take almost 5 mins. Be very dilligent on the install and verify the airflow. The overall picture is this. The rear bank breather line needs a check valve to ONLY allow airflow from the rear valve cover to the atmosphere or intake. The front breather with the PCV valve also needs a beefy CHECK valve in place to prevent boosted pressurized air flowing from the intake manifold to the front valve cover. Leave the factory breather line that vents and stabilized between the front and rear bank in place. This new setup will prevent un-metered air from entering the engine, increase vaccum and prevent pressurization of the crankcase. I ended up tapping a 1/4" pipe to 3/8" barb fitting in my upper intake pipe after the MAS. You could also leave it plummed into the air filter.


    UPGRADES

    Methanol & Water Injection kits:
    They work. The SRT4 guys are all over this modification. Our system operates on a linear spray boost controller that introduces meth at ~ 4psi and tops to 100% pump power at 12psi. It is fully adjustable for tweaking. Some Vortech kits out there use FMICs. It is possible to use. Vortech recommends using A2W ICs for this reason. Methanol/Water injection is a 3rd alternative. I still would like to see a PWR A2W IC plumbed into this setup.

    Where to get Methanol/Water :
    Buy BOOST JUICE! http://www.snowperformance.net/prodd...prod=40060%2DD
    Its a 49% / 51% mix, the max legal mix you can have and still be deemed non-flammable. Anything more and you'd be held liable in an accident for improper storage of a flammable. Its also pure and contains no chemicals found in wiper fluid that can be bad on electrical parts.

    Manifold Swaps:
    Manifold swaps are a popular mod with SDS kits cause they generally increase the boost available several PSI. The best manifold seems to be the Diamante manifold from 99-02 VRX models. The next best choice is the 2003-2005 Eclipse GTS manifold. The swaps are slightly involved, more or less depending on the manifold you get and if it comes with all the sensors and what not. I did a good write up on whats required for the GTS intake install on a GT model. http://www.club3g.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531

    INFO
    Custom Kits:
    You'll find many people on here complain about RIPPs kit yet they a) Dont own a kit or b) dont do anything to modify their kit to prove it can be done better. RIPP actually sells a tuner kit just for the this. I cant remember though anyone who has built a reliable setup yet out of it. However if you feel you know what your doing, how to do it, and got the $, this is the kit for you. The kit includes everything needed for bolt on of the blower, you just add the fuel and management system the way you want. Overall its a very reasonable price for what you get.

    Blownup Motors:
    RIPP kits when installed properly do not blow up motors. I have never seen a stage 1 or 2 kit installed by RIPP blow up a car. If it has happened I am unaware. Almost every failure I know of so far has been from mechanical failure pre-existing, user error (i.e. running into fuel cut with the automatic), or installation error (improper BB install, improper fuel system install)

    SES Lights:
    Running the RIPP brat and BB should throw no codes. I havent thrown a code for almost a year with this setup. Without the BRAT, the only light you should throw time to time is the P105 code, this is from the baro circuit reading excessive pressure from boost, since it was never designed to see it. If the car runs for 15 mins without seeing boost (15 mins is about how long the initial obd2 scan takes) you wont see the light for that drive. A fix is in testing i believe on wiring the baro to the black box to limit the sensor voltage output. If you are throwing conistent P0300 or P030x you have a fuel problem as this is not a normal code.

    Cold Starts:
    Do not run your car hard until it is warm. it straight out isnt healthy for it. vortech also doesnt recommend running a blower with cold oil. operating temperature is required before vehicle operation. starting the car and blowing down the road in 5 secs is asking for problems.

    Links for additional help and info:
    www.rippmods.com
    www.vortechsuperchargers.com
    http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...streetfile.pdf - Vortech Owners Guide
    www.rceng.com

    MY 3G SDS - www.club3g.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1120


    DISCLAIMER
    This information is based on my own research and experience with the RIPP SDS. It is not authorized by RIPP nor am I claiming to be any spokesman for them. I am just giving the truth and personal opinions as necessary. I am writing this on my own behalf for all the people on and offline that PM me, email me or just wanted to know. Please do not fill this thread with countersinfo on why a turbo is better, why RIPP sucks, why the sky is blue, etc. If you have counter info make your own post. If you have productive info, feel free to share. Thanks!
    -Andrew

  7. #7
    Damn...
    Well thanks for the help. Turbo it is then..

    Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    TGC Lifetime Patron oakrdrs187's Avatar
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    Ripp mods makes a supercharger kit.
    Last edited by oakrdrs187; 09-17-2011 at 04:24 AM

  9. #9
    TGC Lifetime Patron finald8ta's Avatar
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    personally i think ripp is a ripp off, i installed one on a 3g few yrs back and it was one hell of a mess plus the pipe work was a horrible design, not sure if they fixed any of the issues or designs since then

    just my 2c

  10. #10
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    Talk about just killing any further development...

    If you feel the M90 is not sufficient then you have no background on that engine platform to even speak of its performance abilities. Thankfully somebody here has done something with the Grand Prix platform for a few years, in fact how about even helping build a few? Heck, even made a trip to Intense Racing in Ohio about 6-7 years ago just when they were moving into their new facility because my buddy at the time new the owner. Sat in their shop straightening fins on their intercoolers, checking out their turbo'd drag Grand Prix, got a good break down of their transmission builds and much more.


    It wouldn't be hard to fit the M90 to the 6g series engines. Yes, there is fab work required in order to make an upper intake "plate" to bolt the M90 onto the lower intake manifold. You could also make a complete lower intake manifold to replace your lower manifold, but this is more fab work. Along with this you will need to deal with the serpentine belt for the supercharger and get your pulleys lined up. You can increase boost by simply switching out the pulley on the supercharger with one of the aftermarket options for them.



    For the V6 platform you really have to pay to play, there are very few "kits" out there for forced induction and the ones that are out there are RIPP (which has many who love it and many who hate it), or somebody else who makes a turbo kit with poor design.

    3G Eclipse Performance & Development - Denver, Colorado
    www.blackheartmotors.net

  11. #11
    Senior TGC Member underated's Avatar
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    the only thing i would use from ripp's is the supercharger itself.... i'd source out everything else myself. use ecuflash to tune, some wrx injectors or other aftermarket injectors, convert to speed density, find an air to water intercooler that would fit behind the driver headlight, and find a decent set of aftermarket headers. all that extra injectors and black/grey box piggyback band-aid stuff is just going to cause you a headache
    Last edited by underated; 09-17-2011 at 10:59 AM
    Brandon - 2001 Galant GST 5speed
    Wiseco // Eagle // PTE // Holset // Turbonetics // Supertech // Blox // Prosport // Vibrant // Innovate // OpenEcu // Mishimoto // Magnaflow // Walbro // XXR // Rotora // Brembo // Hawk // R1 Concepts // Dc Sports


  12. #12
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    Converting to speed density will require use of a standalone, this has not yet been setup for the V6 using EcuFlash data at this time.

    3G Eclipse Performance & Development - Denver, Colorado
    www.blackheartmotors.net

  13. #13
    Senior TGC Member underated's Avatar
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    i really i thought someone on club3g had it working... but i could be mistaken
    Brandon - 2001 Galant GST 5speed
    Wiseco // Eagle // PTE // Holset // Turbonetics // Supertech // Blox // Prosport // Vibrant // Innovate // OpenEcu // Mishimoto // Magnaflow // Walbro // XXR // Rotora // Brembo // Hawk // R1 Concepts // Dc Sports


  14. #14
    Senior TGC Member Skyforger's Avatar
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    I don't know the M90's capabilities?

    W-body guys know if they wanna make power, they ditch the M90 in favor for a turbo setup. More flexability, tuning, and range in power and boost.

    Turbo > Supercharger

    True story

    -Chris-

    2003 Mitsubishi Galant ES 2.4L SOHC: "Octavia"
    2005 Honda Accord EX-L Coupe 2.4L DOHC

    Quote Originally Posted by XxGiRLaNT06xX View Post
    From the looks of the girl, her face isnt that great.. nothing a paper bag couldnt fix... amirite?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyforger View Post
    I don't know the M90's capabilities?

    W-body guys know if they wanna make power, they ditch the M90 in favor for a turbo setup. More flexability, tuning, and range in power and boost.

    Turbo > Supercharger

    True story
    By all means, if there was a properly designed turbo setup for this platform I would strongly suggest it. However, if you feel it is justified to spend $2500+ for some tossed together design...by all means go for it.

    RIPP offers a decent system, maybe not the best to some people...but it is an option.


    The M90 may not be what you want for making more power on the W-Body platform (which remember came supercharged). You need to realize is this is a Galant community and the V6 models never had a supercharger or FI offered in the states. We are talking about a platform here that very few have dumped any serious cash into their engines on the V6 models, N/A or FI asepcts to make serious power.


    If you can't think outside of the box like the OP did, then you only limit yourselves and the overall community for any further advancement.

    3G Eclipse Performance & Development - Denver, Colorado
    www.blackheartmotors.net

  16. #16
    Senior TGC Member Skyforger's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, a turbo IS more efficient. With the supercharger, you need power to make power. The 6G72 isn't a high HP motor out of the box, but with a turbo, there's no added stress on the engine to create boost. Not to mention, those damn M90's are massive, you really think the small space for the 6G72's intake manifold is gonna fit without hacking away the hood? NOPE.tiff

    I look at this situation like how it is in the Grand Am scene. The 3400 LA1 V6 motor has NO direct turbo kit, yet...there have been a decent amount of turbo builds. And they've laid down more HP than any of the Eaton (M62) powered and RSM powered (centrifigual) supercharged 3400's. Turbos usually lay down +320WHP like it's a cakewalk, and the supercharged 3400's struggle to break 290WHP without A LOT MORE of supporting mods than you would with a turbo.

    Bottom line, turbos are more efficient, cheaper, and are capable of more power. It's not about "thinking out of the box", it's about practicality, budget, and power. And you're NOT getting that from an M90. Period.

    -Chris-

    2003 Mitsubishi Galant ES 2.4L SOHC: "Octavia"
    2005 Honda Accord EX-L Coupe 2.4L DOHC

    Quote Originally Posted by XxGiRLaNT06xX View Post
    From the looks of the girl, her face isnt that great.. nothing a paper bag couldnt fix... amirite?

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